What connects us all when there is no self?

Whether you're exploring Buddhism for the first time or you're already on the path, feel free to ask questions of any kind here.

Re: What connects us all when there is no self?

Postby Son of Buddha » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:42 am

to Asunthatneversets


That looks like a quote from the Lankavatara.

First off that text never says Tathagatagrabha is skillfull means.

Second “Mahamati, my teaching of Tathāgatagarbha is not equivalent with the assertion of the Self of the non-Buddhists. Mahamati, the Tathāgata

The quote is seperating the idea of a substastial Self such as "the size of a thumb size of a mustard seed non buddhist idea of self from the tathagtagrabha(true self)

Third the rest of the quote is in reference to newly converted Buddhists,who still had wrong views of what the self was so Tathagatagarbha is redefined as to not confuse those new converts.

Fourth your translation from about half way down looks entirely mistranslated and doesn"t even make since nor does it compare or line up with Suzuki or Red pines translations.

As far as Buddha Nature being a definite teaching read the Dharma Drum Sutra and Nirvana Sutra.
User avatar
Son of Buddha
 
Posts: 877
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: What connects us all when there is no self?

Postby asunthatneversets » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:52 am

Son of Buddha wrote:
to Asunthatneversets


That looks like a quote from the Lankavatara.

First off that text never says Tathagatagrabha is skillfull means.

Second “Mahamati, my teaching of Tathāgatagarbha is not equivalent with the assertion of the Self of the non-Buddhists. Mahamati, the Tathāgata

The quote is seperating the idea of a substastial Self such as "the size of a thumb size of a mustard seed non buddhist idea of self from the tathagtagrabha(true self)

Third the rest of the quote is in reference to newly converted Buddhists,who still had wrong views of what the self was so Tathagatagarbha is redefined as to not confuse those new converts.

Fourth your translation from about half way down looks entirely mistranslated and doesn"t even make since nor does it compare or line up with Suzuki or Red pines translations.

As far as Buddha Nature being a definite teaching read the Dharma Drum Sutra and Nirvana Sutra.

It is a skillful means:

Thus spoke Samantabhadra: "The ālaya is a state that is like the vast general ground of all samsara and nirvana having fallen asleep and not being awake to the sense objects. However, even during the five unconscious states, mind itself and mind, which have the nature of support and supported, remain latently present. In the lower vehicles this [ālaya] is taught as the buddha nature for the sake of temporarily guiding the immature ones who are eaten by doubts regarding the stainless true condition."
- Jigme Lingpa
asunthatneversets
 
Posts: 1314
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:30 pm

Re: What connects us all when there is no self?

Postby Son of Buddha » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:05 am

asunthatneversets wrote:
Son of Buddha wrote:
to Asunthatneversets


That looks like a quote from the Lankavatara.

First off that text never says Tathagatagrabha is skillfull means.

Second “Mahamati, my teaching of Tathāgatagarbha is not equivalent with the assertion of the Self of the non-Buddhists. Mahamati, the Tathāgata

The quote is seperating the idea of a substastial Self such as "the size of a thumb size of a mustard seed non buddhist idea of self from the tathagtagrabha(true self)

Third the rest of the quote is in reference to newly converted Buddhists,who still had wrong views of what the self was so Tathagatagarbha is redefined as to not confuse those new converts.








Fourth your translation from about half way down looks entirely mistranslated and doesn"t even make since nor does it compare or line up with Suzuki or Red pines translations.

As far as Buddha Nature being a definite teaching read the Dharma Drum Sutra and Nirvana Sutra.

It is a skillful means:

Thus spoke Samantabhadra: "The ālaya is a state that is like the vast general ground of all samsara and nirvana having fallen asleep and not being awake to the sense objects. However, even during the five unconscious states, mind itself and mind, which have the nature of support and supported, remain latently present. In the lower vehicles this [ālaya] is taught as the buddha nature for the sake of temporarily guiding the immature ones who are eaten by doubts regarding the stainless true condition."
- Jigme Lingpa


Nope the Buddha Nature is actually the highest teaching,also if you read the ACTUAL Lankavatara sutra for which you posted a mistranslation you will the context of the conversation is in reference to NEW buddhist converts who dont know anything about the Dharma,so the Tathagatagarbha(true self) is redefined so to not confuse them into thinking iys the same self as the non buddhists


Chapter 6 of the Lankavatara Sutra and for Queen Srimala to whom the Buddha's spiritual power was added, the [pure] realm of Tathagatahood was expounded. This does not belong to the realm of speculation as it is carried on by the Sravakas, Pratyekabuddhas, and other philosophers, except, Mahamati, that this realm of Tathagatahood which is the realm of the Tathagata-garbha-alayavijnana is meant for those Bodhisattva-Mahasattvas who like you are endowed with subtle, fine, penetrating thought-power and whose understanding is in accordance with the meaning; and it is not for others, such as philosophers, Sravakas, and Pratyekabuddhas, who are attached to the letters of the canonical texts. For this reason, Mahamati, let you and other Bodhisattva-Mahasattvas discipline yourselves in the realm of Tathagatahood, in the understanding of this Tathagata-garbha-alayavijnana, so that you may not rest contented with mere learning.
User avatar
Son of Buddha
 
Posts: 877
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: What connects us all when there is no self?

Postby Son of Buddha » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:30 am

To asunthatneversets

I will give you the last word on (our topic) and will not even try to refute it or reply with a rebuttal.
We have essentially hi-jacked this poor guys thread.....if you wish to continue this subject/topic make your last post here and I will reply in PM.

Peace and Love
User avatar
Son of Buddha
 
Posts: 877
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: What connects us all when there is no self?

Postby flowerbudh » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:29 pm

You lost me. :p I'm a novice, hehe.
Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without. - The Buddha
User avatar
flowerbudh
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:38 pm
Location: earth

Previous

Return to Exploring Buddhism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kim O'Hara, udawa and 14 guests

>