Direct rebirth as a bug

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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby avisitor » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:13 pm

What if anything determines rebirth and as what organism??
Maybe Karma would have a hand in all this??
In any case, one wouldn't know while being human that one is destined to be rebirth as a bug
Nor while a bug that one has come before as a human.

All this is thinking about the past or future.
Sorry to have interrupted.
Last edited by avisitor on Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby KonchokZoepa » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:19 pm

i have heard it in the teachings that karma as the only factor wont make you take any rebirth at all. there must be craving and desire for existence.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby Seishin » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:35 pm

avisitor wrote:In any case, one wouldn't know while being human that one is destined to be rebirth as a bug
Nor while a bug that one has come before as a human.

All this is thinking about the past or future.


You've hit the nail on the head there. Because we do not know where we'll end up it's better to practice earnestly now rather than worry about rebirth :twothumbsup:
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby Nosta » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:31 pm

Ragrding that, I dont know who said this (maybe Acarya Mun), but its interesting: if one could see clearly the effects of his own karma - effects like the next rebirth and way of life - one would never leave the precepts again. Practice would be much more diligent if one could see karma the same way we see mundane objects.
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby smcj » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:44 pm

Much is said on the subject of emptiness around here. The first corollary to emptiness is the idea of unrestricted metamorphosis. Since you have no essence limiting how you manifest, you can become anything.
Last edited by smcj on Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby KonchokZoepa » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:52 pm

thats creepy
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby smcj » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:25 pm

One of the things my teacher told me was to remember that when I listen to teachings on emptiness to remember it is a description of how I really am.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby KonchokZoepa » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:11 pm

also when we understand and emptiness better, not even to say experience it, we understand dependent origination better cause that is the relative side of it. we will have more understanding of the effects of our actions.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby largomano » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:20 pm

[..human, then reborn as a monk, then as a rat...]

Do you think he meant "monkey"? :namaste:
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby Alfredo » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:42 pm

In view of the vast differences between humans and bugs, not to mention supernatural entities such as ghosts, one wonders why it is considered impossible to reincarnate as a plant. Sure, plants lack nervous systems, but...don't ghosts as well? And a bug couldn't have much of one.

Or what about an amoeba, which (you'll recall) does not really die per se?

If Mt. Meru is not to be taken literally, then perhaps the six realms should be treated likewise. (At the risk of undoing the entire edifice of Buddhist soteriology, of course.)
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby Nosta » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:54 pm

largomano wrote:[..human, then reborn as a monk, then as a rat...]

Do you think he meant "monkey"? :namaste:


!!!!

GUYS, sorry! lol Thats the problem of not speaking english, you dont pay attention to small (but important!) details like that...I wanted to say MONKEY, not monk!

lol
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby Malcolm » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:46 pm

lobster wrote:It should be regarded as particular to forms of a buddhism that are perpetuated by those without a comprehensive education.


This is a pretty snotty and arrogant statement, as well as being factually untrue. There are all kinds of people far more educated than you, fully conversant in the latest on neuroscience, physics, and so forth, who nevertheless continue to adhere to a belief in transmigration or rebirth or reincarnation.
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby KonchokZoepa » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:21 pm

and with bodhicitta you become a buddha
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby smcj » Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:05 pm

Without reincarnation the theory of karma in invalidated. If karma is invalidated, everthing Sakyamuni said was b.s. :shrug:

I mean, unless you say that small babies made bad karma in the womb, how do you explain karma working on childhood disease, accidents, neglect and abuse?
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby dude » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:39 pm

smcj wrote:Without reincarnation the theory of karma in invalidated. If karma is invalidated, everthing Sakyamuni said was b.s. :shrug:

I mean, unless you say that small babies made bad karma in the womb, how do you explain karma working on childhood disease, accidents, neglect and abuse?



That's how I see it too.
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby dharmagoat » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:43 am

Nosta wrote:Can you reborn as a bug? Like a spider, an ant, etc?

Anyone who believes in literal rebirth can believe whatever they like.

Is it useful to believe in direct rebirth as a bug? Maybe, maybe not.
May all beings be happy
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby KonchokZoepa » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:07 am

simon, whats OP?
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby dzogchungpa » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:18 am

Original Post, i.e. the first post in the thread.
ཨོཾ་ཏཱ་རེ་ཏུཏྟ་རེ་ཏུ་རེ་སྭཱཧཱ༔
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby KonchokZoepa » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:36 am

and like we talked here earlier that emptiness can manifest as anything, if human why is there limits to what else can appear in emptiness.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Direct rebirth as a bug

Postby Seishin » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:25 pm

Lobster,

Science is only concerned with the physical, as that is all that can be studied, measured and quantified in a physical world. If there was such a thing as "metaphysical science" we might be able to provide some kind of proof, other than memories. I'm sure you are well aware of this, which makes your comments over more condescending*.

You are also assuming that those who believe in rebirth have memories of previous lives. This is not true.

Belief in rebirth does not make one insane, as you suggest. If you truly believe this, then by extension, you also must believe that anyone who believes in God or some kind of higher power is also insane. That would make the vast majority of the entire world insane.

Now, I know others have started to avoid answering your goading* posts, but I'm sure, if you'd like to discuss the topic in a manner in accordance with right speech, I'm sure we can all have a harmonious discussion.

Gassho,
Seishin

*condescending - Acting in a way that betrays a feeling of patronizing superiority.
*goading - Provoke or annoy (someone) so as to stimulate some action or reaction


*EDIT* By "metaphysical science" I am not referring to metaphysics
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