Hsu Yun ---paralysis meditation---question

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Hsu Yun ---paralysis meditation---question

Postby San Feng zhen ren » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:18 am

Hi guys i decided to post on this forum and on this website just in case anyone could help me find answers to burning questions ive had for months.
Ive emailed Hsu Yun.org and elsewhere this very email below also as i would like to have any perspective especially when trying to understand
what seems to be an important issue for me with regards to my beliefs,thoughts and following the masters advice on the way of correct cultivation

My enlglish is not always great so please be patient and bear with me...


Hi ive been reading Hsu Yuns biography and its very inspirational.
My email below is asking for help in answering some important
questions relating to buddhism.
Im an admirer of the courage of Hsu Yun and Hsuan Hua and it inspires
me to follow there teachings and the path they encourage through their
teachings
However i infrequently hit seeming blocks in understanding,doubts and
major confusion.
Because i cant rid myself of my confusion regarding something specific
in Hsu Yuns practice ,i cant get it out of my head and its acting as a
major block to fathoming whether the practice of meditation that he
did is a correct path to Tao

Its regarding Hsu Yun, once when he was in meditation and samadhi and
he became paralyzed after his nine day session. And he became so
unwell he couldnt even hold chopsticks and was in a terrible state.
This sort of thing doesnt seem to be mentioned in the old sutras nor i
believe it isnt mentioned in journey to the west ,so my questions are

Why and how did he become paralyzed?

because im concerned as :
if his practice was a true practice wouldnt it be safe?
Why is he becoming paralyzed from something thats supposed to be
linked to body and mind ,for instance Hsuan Hua and others mention
that meditation cleans the body and repairs the deficiencies and
channels ...so therefore making muscles,tendons,nerves and bones
strong so that by continuing in meditation as Hsu Yun often did it
would thereby not lead to bad effects like Paralysis (which is a sign
of great damage and harm done to the body),he often said his health
was robust in his biography and in there is no mention in the old
taoist immortal classics and commentarys of the true practice causing
this problem so i dont know how it happened,why and whats going on with this.

the part in question can be found here

page 106 http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/ ... Xu_Yun.pdf

or alternatively in his pictorial biography

Its

part 141 of this book

A Pictorial Biography of the Venerable Master Hsu Yun, Volume 2

You can find exerpts to the very chapter of 141 which explains about
his paralysis

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MFn1 ... is&f=false


Any help with helping me understand this very important point will go
such a long way for me increasing belief in the teachings of the
masters and continuing along this path . Especially because there
shouldnt be any inconsistencies in the teachings.

I would really appreciate any information as this has bothered me for
months and months and i cant say how much respect i have for these
great masters.

Warm regards and kindness
Richard
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Re: Hsu Yun ---paralysis meditation---question

Postby yan kong » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:09 am

While he often said that his health was robust I would also note the several times he was gravely ill and narrowly escaped death. While I have no explanation for his symptoms I will say that it is the first time I have heard of this happening to an accomplished practitioner. I would also like to point out that despite these hardships he always mentions that he managed to sustain his mindfullness (in early life) or experienced great "happiness" (in later life).
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun
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Re: Hsu Yun ---paralysis meditation---question

Postby San Feng zhen ren » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:49 pm

Yes thanks for your reply Yan Kong
Yes ive never heard of this happening also in my reading ,its dissapointing to read to me because taoism master liu yi ming mentions numerous sidetracks of taoism and never gives a method of practice saying but his langauge is versed in symbolism and allegory like many true old taoist texts . But what Liu does mention is numerous sidetracks over and over again that one should be aware of and also false enlightenment states and falling into emptiness and warms of numerous meditation and buddhist meitation especially quiet sitting and sitting on mats in buddhist halls. But i respect Hsu yun and Hsuan hua so much i wanted to find a link between taoist and chan master liu yi ming (18th century zhenren) and the chan teachings of hsuan hua etc but i hit many blocks and confusions and this usually stops me furthering in meditation.
This is the reason im seeking to rid confusion and doubts
the fact Hsu Yun got paralzes in meditation doesnt appear good to me regarding true or false practice
But i am open minded about it
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Re: Hsu Yun ---paralysis meditation---question

Postby yan kong » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:05 pm

I don't know much about Toaism but it doesn't sound like Liu Yi Ming knows much about Buddhism or meditations place in it. Speaking specifically of Hsu Yun there is only that one time when he experiences paralysis after a long period of Samadhi, and Chan meditiation are certainly not the only ways in which he cultivated mindfulness.
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun
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Re: Hsu Yun ---paralysis meditation---question

Postby Koji » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:22 am

Another interesting thing about Hsü-yün, According to his own autobiography he claims that he was ordained at Ku Shan under Mia-lien in 1859. But Mia-lien, himself, was never ordained at Ku Shan until around 1876. This raises some interesting questions. Why should Hsü-yün forget the date? Ordination which, in general, can be severe and can last almost two months, is not something one easily forgets.
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Re: Hsu Yun ---paralysis meditation---question

Postby yan kong » Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:39 pm

All at the same time I am assuming given his prestige that someone would have gone the distance to find out if his ordination was authentic or not.
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun
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Re: Hsu Yun ---paralysis meditation---question

Postby Astus » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:18 pm

"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)
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Re: Hsu Yun ---paralysis meditation---question

Postby Koji » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:02 pm

yan kong wrote:All at the same time I am assuming given his prestige that someone would have gone the distance to find out if his ordination was authentic or not.


I am sure history has great Buddhist teachers who have credential problems. The so-called Chan lineage is not without its fair share of such problems. Personally, I like what Hsu-yun has to say about the word-head 話頭. I could not care less if made up the whole ordination thing. It's his experience that counts.
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Re: Hsu Yun ---paralysis meditation---question

Postby San Feng zhen ren » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:38 pm

Here is an answer to the issue (in PDF): An Inquiry Into Master Xuyun’s Experiences of Long-dwelling in Samādhi

EXCELLENT,THANK YOU

explains very much :jedi:
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