Buddhism and Manhood.

[Grigoris]

As humans it basically means that we are screwed since, in contast to the case of Shakyamuni Buddha, we have been born unenlightened.

Not exactly. Enlightenment, if achieved, is retroactive. So if you become enlightened, retroactively you'll be able to see that the presence of your own enlightenment was there all along.

Well that's the beauty with infinity, it goes in both directions!

[Arjan Dirkse]

So, is the Buddha a guy who did good - really, really, really good, or is he a color out of space or 'never was a person just pretended to be?' [we are setting aside the "at the Ultimate level we are Buddha" model for this discussion]

Yes.

Does it even matter which one? The teaching and his ultimate effect on all other sentient beings is what matters right? I think it isn't all that significant wether he was a man or an alien or a robot or a lion walking on his hind legs.

This discussion is sorta the same as the "was Christ man or God" thing isn't it?

[Grigoris]

Identical, and equally worthy of discusssion. You see Christianity took a horrible turn when it shifted from small communties of practitioners to the centralised religious hierarchies which dominate it now. Part of this change is premised on the nature of Christ and human capcity to emulate Christ. Christ is God, and since we cannot be God, or access God (unless we are wearing the right hat and robe and are part of the elite that understands the specific language used for religious cermony)... Sounds kind of familiar doesn't it?