what is enlightenment ?

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what is enlightenment ?

Postby charu » Tue May 14, 2013 7:19 pm

hi ..
i am trying to understand that what is enlightenment ? who is enlightened being ? how we say that yes u are enlightened now?
waiting for your kind replies ...
have a happy healthy life
charu
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby dyanaprajna2011 » Tue May 14, 2013 11:52 pm

Enlightenment generally implies two things: enlightenment towards something, namely, seeing into the true nature of reality; and liberation away from something, from the three poisons of greed, hatred, and delusion, away from craving. Normally, it takes someone who is enlightened themselves to recognize enlightenment in someone else.
"If you want to travel the Way of Buddhas and Zen masters, then expect nothing, seek nothing, and grasp nothing." -Dogen
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby LastLegend » Wed May 15, 2013 12:43 am

Enlightenment is free from suffering, and suffering is enduring results/effects of our doings through the cycle of rebirth and death.
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby lobster » Wed May 15, 2013 2:39 pm

:reading: What have your read about enlightenment?
http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ebdha341.htm

:popcorn:
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby philji » Wed May 15, 2013 2:55 pm

Dzongar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche (born 1961)

When you don't have obsession,
when you don't have hang-ups,
A beautiful quote from the Tibetan teacher Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche
when you don't have inhibition,
when you are not afraid
you will be breaking certain rules,
when you are not afraid
you will not fulfill somebody's expectations,
what more enlightenment do you want?
That's it.
:cheers:
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby randomseb » Wed May 15, 2013 5:46 pm

While you may describe certain symptoms of it, it itself couldn't be described by any kind of language as doing so would establish a description of mental symbol objects which are not it itself, you know what I mean?

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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby charu » Wed May 15, 2013 6:29 pm

Many thanks all for ur kind replies ...

Thanks dyanaprajna2011 - yes i understood that either gaining knowledge of something completely or abandon the bad things which we do like greed, hatred etc. completely is a part of being truely enlightened .. i said "a part " becoz may be other things also comes in being enlightened and i also believe that enlightened being may recognize other enlightened being ... but i am not sure as i am never enlightened .. many thanks ...

Thanks LastLegend - i also think that enlightened being should never suffers ... because he is perfect and knows everything .. how can he suffer ? but i have a feeling that god also suffers sometimes .. and feels bad when he sees that i am not doing good things in life and then facing bad consequences.. i believe i should be the one whom god can say proudly that " look i created her and sent her their on earth and i am proud of creating her and sending her on earth ".. thanks for helping

Thanks philji - its a nice thought that an when we are not afraid ... that fearless moment is great and what more enlightenment do we want ... is a good question .. because knowledge has no limits ... nice poem .. thanks

Thanks for the link lobster - The words of buddha are so confident ....
What has to be known, that I have known;
What has to be abandoned, that I have abandoned;
What has to be developed, that I have developed;
Therefore, O brahmin, I am a Buddha."

I have not read much about enlightenment .. just asked few people as i believe many people teach us many good things ... and i do not have a wish of being enlightened but i wish to be good and both are a little similar its just we can say that good is little small and enlightened is biggest ... i am trying to be good and better each day and i do not have ambition to be the best ... i just know i wish to do good things in life and to think good and never do anything bad .. and my heart suggests what is good and bad ... and just not to neglect the voice .. the goodness ... and i believe that god or buddha or being enlightened is infinite goodness in my opinion...
have a happy healthy life all ...
charu
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby Jikan » Wed May 15, 2013 7:39 pm

thought experiment:

If all afflictive emotions and habits of mind (think of hatred, ignorance, greediness, pride, jealousy, and the like) are resolved and no longer present, what remains?

Whatever that is, that is what enlightenment is. One's nature is originally enlightened, but because one doesn't recognize this and instead gets mixed up in hatred, ignorance, greed and the rest, we chase after all kinds of nonsense and cause all manner of problems for ourselves.
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby shel » Wed May 15, 2013 8:52 pm

Jikan wrote:thought experiment:

If all afflictive emotions and habits of mind (think of hatred, ignorance, greediness, pride, jealousy, and the like) are resolved and no longer present, what remains?


Same as before realization: emptiness. :oops:
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby Jikan » Wed May 15, 2013 8:54 pm

shel wrote:
Jikan wrote:thought experiment:

If all afflictive emotions and habits of mind (think of hatred, ignorance, greediness, pride, jealousy, and the like) are resolved and no longer present, what remains?


Same as before realization: emptiness. :oops:


Yes, that's right. The difference is in recognition or lack thereof (which is the real "oops").
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby shel » Wed May 15, 2013 9:25 pm

Are you saying that afflictive emotions and habits of mind (think of hatred, ignorance, greediness, pride, jealousy, and the like) resolved and no longer present = recognition of emptiness?
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby tomamundsen » Wed May 15, 2013 9:37 pm

Jikan wrote:thought experiment:

If all afflictive emotions and habits of mind (think of hatred, ignorance, greediness, pride, jealousy, and the like) are resolved and no longer present, what remains?

Whatever that is, that is what enlightenment is. One's nature is originally enlightened, but because one doesn't recognize this and instead gets mixed up in hatred, ignorance, greed and the rest, we chase after all kinds of nonsense and cause all manner of problems for ourselves.

:good:

Jikan wrote:
shel wrote:
Jikan wrote:thought experiment:

If all afflictive emotions and habits of mind (think of hatred, ignorance, greediness, pride, jealousy, and the like) are resolved and no longer present, what remains?


Same as before realization: emptiness. :oops:


Yes, that's right. The difference is in recognition or lack thereof (which is the real "oops").

:good:
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby Jikan » Wed May 15, 2013 10:44 pm

shel wrote:Are you saying that afflictive emotions and habits of mind (think of hatred, ignorance, greediness, pride, jealousy, and the like) resolved and no longer present = recognition of emptiness?


I'm describing a process, not making an equation. Stable recognition of emptiness is the path of seeing, which is the first of the bodhisattva bhumis. Recognizing afflictive emotions and other karmic whatnot as emptiness, those afflictions are resolved. (my understanding is that practitioners are still capable of backsliding at this point, and are until the eighth bhumi. that's why I say I'm describing a process of learning and development, and not a simple equation.)

All this is to say that one of the interesting things about our condition is that it is not only empty, but also capable of clarity or lucidity or understanding (pick the descriptor you like best). What's a good word for that inseparability of clarity and emptiness? Some traditions call it the Middle Way, others call it original enlightenment, &c.

What's your take on this question of what enlightenment or awakening or realization or liberation is, shel?
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby randomseb » Thu May 16, 2013 2:18 am

It's like the great wind of your correct following of the Path blows away the stormy dark clouds of your ego and defilements that are covering the clear blue sky of your mind-ground, at which point the brilliant sun of your awareness can illuminate the land, giving rise to all of creation.

That's the metaphor I like, based off what seems to be a common theme in various texts of different faiths, such as the first few chapters of Genesis.. Or maybe i am :crazy:
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby shel » Fri May 17, 2013 1:41 am

Jikan wrote:What's your take on this question of what enlightenment or awakening or realization or liberation is, shel?


An absence of selfishness maybe. Not something that I can imagine, but thanks for asking.
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Fri May 17, 2013 2:45 am

My understanding is that the Buddha never spoke specifically of anything called 'enlightenment' and that this is really a general western term referring to any new way of seeing, or of discovery (The "Age Of Enlightenment" ) and during the late 19th century, when English translations of Buddhist texts were on the upswing, this term was applied to the idea of Bodhi, of perfect awakening, perfect realization.
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby yegyal » Fri May 17, 2013 4:10 am

The Tibetan translation of bodhi is made up of the two syllables byang and chub, which could be translated as 'pure' and 'complete.' The first refers to the lack of any emotional defilements and the second refers to the idea that all of the qualities of wisdom are embraced or included in this state. So if you put those into the past tense to make the word Buddha, Sangs rgyas, that refers to somebody that has completely purified their negative emotions and fully embraced the way things truly are, i.e. the wisdom that realizes emptiness.

At least that's usually how this word byang chub, that is often translated as "enlightenment," is etymologized in the Tibetan tradition.
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby greentara » Fri May 17, 2013 4:55 am

'First of all, abandon all self-identification, stop thinking of yourself as such-and-such, so-and-so, this or that. Abandon all self-concern, worry not about your welfare, material or spiritual. Abandon any desire, gross or subtle, stop thinking of achievement of any kind. You are complete here and now, you need absolutely nothing'
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby lobster » Fri May 17, 2013 8:56 am

Thanks for the link lobster - The words of Buddha are so confident ....


:twothumbsup:

Of course. He knew he was awake. He was in reality, whilst most of us are trying to find a better dream.
Your aspiration to be a better person is good. It is one of the ways to Buddhahood and enlightenment.
You have heard many good explanations . . . some people are even dreaming of being awake . . . :woohoo:

Keep reading and studying the dharma :reading:
Your life and capacity to be a better person will happen quite naturally. Buddhism is the only religion which comes with guarantees. We aim to relieve suffering. Nothing less will do :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tath%C4%81gata
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Re: what is enlightenment ?

Postby Nothing » Fri May 17, 2013 10:19 am

charu wrote:.....what is enlightenment ?.....

Enlightenment is just a word.....made from 13 letters.....if you take away the letters.....there is nothing there.....nothing but a human construct.....a fabrication.....empty.....nothing!

(reading and understanding are two completely different things)
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