YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

inherent goodness - Dhamma Wheel

inherent goodness

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
befriend
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

inherent goodness

Postby befriend » Sun May 27, 2012 4:38 pm

i was thinking that if when anyone does a wholsome action they feel a sense of well being afterwards. doing good deeds, does not make one feel neutral or negative.
so wouldnt that make it that our nature is predisposed for goodness. so my point is that, if doing good equate with involuntarily feeling good, shouldnt that make our natures good? what is your take on this? metta
nothing can destroy a man who has lived a pure life

User avatar
hanzze_
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 4:30 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby hanzze_ » Sun May 27, 2012 4:53 pm

How does that feeling good appear, what is its quality? Everybody does good from his opinion. I never had seen somebody not thinking that he does good.

What might be inherent is the subtle all embracing desire to make things really good, which is in some kind imprisoned by what is feeling good.

Ever experienced some neutrality after a deed and I don't mean defuse.
Last edited by hanzze_ on Sun May 27, 2012 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dhamma_newb
Posts: 307
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:36 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby dhamma_newb » Sun May 27, 2012 4:55 pm

Hi befriend,

Have you ever heard of reciprocal altruism? Check it out:

Image
The watched mind brings happiness.
Dhp 36

I am larger and better than I thought. I did not know I held so much goodness.
Walt Whitman

User avatar
hanzze_
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 4:30 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby hanzze_ » Sun May 27, 2012 4:57 pm

That is a good diagram to show that both of that way are not the way to liberation.

befriend
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby befriend » Sun May 27, 2012 5:06 pm

im thinking more along the lines of buddha nature. wouldnt it be buddha nature to have or bodies minds and spirits becoming flooded with endorphins and warm feelings after we have done something wholesome? clearly our bodies and minds want to let us know that being kusala is where we feel most at home in our bodies. only a warped mind enmeshed in delusion would find solace in akusala and they would not be able to feel comfort even in there own beds.
nothing can destroy a man who has lived a pure life

dhamma_newb
Posts: 307
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:36 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby dhamma_newb » Sun May 27, 2012 5:10 pm

The watched mind brings happiness.
Dhp 36

I am larger and better than I thought. I did not know I held so much goodness.
Walt Whitman

User avatar
hanzze_
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 4:30 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby hanzze_ » Sun May 27, 2012 5:17 pm


befriend
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby befriend » Sun May 27, 2012 5:45 pm

nothing can destroy a man who has lived a pure life

User avatar
hanzze_
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 4:30 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby hanzze_ » Sun May 27, 2012 5:47 pm

Does this kind of feeling (YOU are gone) feels warm?

befriend
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby befriend » Sun May 27, 2012 6:09 pm

i dont know if i should answer that, it might confuse newcomers to buddhism.
nothing can destroy a man who has lived a pure life

jason c
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 11:41 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby jason c » Sun May 27, 2012 11:23 pm


befriend
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby befriend » Sun May 27, 2012 11:40 pm

nothing can destroy a man who has lived a pure life

jason c
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 11:41 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby jason c » Mon May 28, 2012 12:10 am

hi befriend,
i questioned christianity all my life, eg; the ten commandments, a list of things you just dont do. i much prefered the buddhas approach observe the precepts. i interpret this as observe yourself if you break a precept. what was the quality of my mind at that time? practicing this i found that my mind was unbalanced and i was suffering, so naturally i corrected my behavior. simple!
metta,
jason

User avatar
hanzze_
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 4:30 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby hanzze_ » Mon May 28, 2012 3:12 am


User avatar
Kusala
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:02 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby Kusala » Mon May 28, 2012 9:32 am

Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

User avatar
hanzze_
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 4:30 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby hanzze_ » Mon May 28, 2012 9:51 am

Are you sure? What if you call "the unconditioned" "inherent goodness", which of cause is something that needs to be reached in a conditioned way.
I guess it's just a thing that the horse is saddled in another way.

Of course to use it as a concept to lead somewhere is a Mahayana thing. But supposed, you have touched the "unconditioned" wouldn't it be also a kind of using this concept?

chownah
Posts: 6161
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: inherent goodness

Postby chownah » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:07 pm

befriend,
Those feelings of goodness you talk about are just feelings. It is just the way your body feels when certain conditions arise. There is no need to try to classify them as being "good" or "better" or "best". There is no reason to fabricate some essential quality of self like "inherent goodness" to accompany those feelings. These feelings just like all feelings do not arise from a self.....they arise from conditions as part of the continual arising of experience....I guess....
chownah

alan
Posts: 2812
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: inherent goodness

Postby alan » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:49 pm

Doing good makes us feel good. That's the way our brains are wired. It's a byproduct of evolution. We would not have survived otherwise.
Don't assume there is some inherent nature within us--there is no evidence for that.

befriend
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby befriend » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:00 pm

when i put my hand on a hot stove and pull it away because it hurts. thats not evolution.
nothing can destroy a man who has lived a pure life

User avatar
hanzze_
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 4:30 am

Re: inherent goodness

Postby hanzze_ » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:26 am

"pull it away because it hurts"

That is helping yes, put just that. How ever sadly such wisdom is nothing inherent.

To put it on another stone again is something that seems to be that what you call "evolution". We love the joy of release in this ongoing progress, but that is such a short moment, that we mention the whole process to be needed to gain it. Wisdom is to figure the reasons for the unnecessary out and that needs to be learned.


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 45 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine