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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:49 am 
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viniketa wrote:
When reading sutras and other Buddhist writings, we learn about being detached from things, people, events, etc. as an antidote to attachment. It almost seems as if we are supposed to be emotionless robots. Sometimes, particularly early in our practice, we may practice "detachment" a little too diligently. Psychology has a name for this state of mind: Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Yet, when we observe great masters, they seem to be anything but emotionless. We see laughter, humor, seriousness, sometimes a hint of sadness in compassion. One thing I love about HHDL's face is its expressiveness.

Isn't detachment another way of talking about "equanimity"? Is the idea not to be "emotionless" but to prefer no one emotion over another?

Thoughts appreciated.

:namaste:

The OP reads as if a decision has already been taken and there is seeking affirmation. Now look what's at the root of raising this issue. Is there attachment or detachment? :sage:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:54 am 
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I agree with Indrajala "Western psychology is of limited utility and is irrelevant to the Buddhist project. I say that with sincerity, too. Western psychology with a few exceptions should be largely rejected" The premise of western psychology is to enhance and bolster the ego and individuality of the person, which is the very opposite of Eastern religion and Buddhism.

Ramon 1920, You may laugh but it is a perennial question,
'In what way do I disturb peace?
By being a slave to your desires and fears"


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:31 pm 
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greentara wrote:
Ramon 1920, You may laugh but it is a perennial question,
'In what way do I disturb peace?
By being a slave to your desires and fears"


Greentara, I am a Buddhist. I am not interested in sorting through the teachings of other religions and trying to make sense of them. I don't even bother sorting through and trying to make sense of those Buddhist teachers that take it upon themselves to reinvent Buddhism from their own personal experiences and interpretations. Why go to the inferior teachers of other religions when I haven't even read everything passed down from the Buddha?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:36 am 
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Ramon 1920, I take your point. It's not sorting through other religions and teachers but simply being arrested by a verse or a saying that rings true. It's best not to be too narrow and be open to messages or pointers that I find genuine or can help in meditation. Now that's all very well but really I need to read less and practice more.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:08 am 
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Greentara, people can say many pleasant things that calm down our defilements temporarily. It doesn't mean they have any long term value though.

A lover can stroke your hair and say they love you and your defilements will calm down, but where does that get you in terms of the path?

People go around saying that there is a God watching over everything with an intense love for beings and a plan for them. It calms people down for a while and is comforting, but where does it get them on the path? What has it done to end rebirth? What long term benefit does it offer?

People smoke pot and become calm for a while. Does that take them anywhere on the path when the next day they're just as irritable and neurotic as before? Did smoking pot put an end to any of the causes of suffering?

There are a lot of things that produce some temporary pacification of our defilements but none the less have no long term value at all.

As for ringing true, what about when you're really angry at someone? When you're really angry doesn't killing them ring true? Doesn't beating them over the head with something ring true?
Our gut instincts are not reliable, they're flaky and change all the time.

When we don't eat or drink or sleep enough we can become really irritable and say all sorts of terrible things and start fights and it all rings true at the time. But what about afterwards when we've eaten and are well rested?

The goal of Buddhism is to put an end to suffering permanently, and to do that is not as simple as calming the defilements temporarily. There is a thicket of views and we are fortunate to have found a guide like Buddha Shakyamuni who instructs us on how to avoid the paths that lead no where, the pits, brambles, swamps, cliffs, and wild predatory animals.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:58 am 
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Ramon1920 wrote:
... The desperation for fabricating ideas, perceptions, having experiences, relationships, identity, etc. doesn't go away just because you intend to, it's a tricky thing to put an end to permanently.

Why "desparation" and why "put an end to permanently"? Ideas are just ideas, perceptions just perceptions, experiences just experiences, identity fabrications just identity fabrications. :sage:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:57 pm 
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ground wrote:
Ramon1920 wrote:
... The desperation for fabricating ideas, perceptions, having experiences, relationships, identity, etc. doesn't go away just because you intend to, it's a tricky thing to put an end to permanently.

Why "desparation" and why "put an end to permanently"? Ideas are just ideas, perceptions just perceptions, experiences just experiences, identity fabrications just identity fabrications. :sage:

The desperation -tanha/thirst- is to be permanently ended as far as I understand. Isn't the feeling of needing to make permanent use of ideas/perceptions/experiences/relationships/identity pretty central to samsara?

_________________
"Removing the barrier between this and that is the only solution" {Chogyam Trungpa - "The Lion's Roar"}


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:47 pm 
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ground wrote:
Why "desparation" and why "put an end to permanently"? Ideas are just ideas, perceptions just perceptions, experiences just experiences, identity fabrications just identity fabrications. :sage:


Because suffering is just suffering.

You suffer, they suffer, it doesn't matter that it has no findable essence, it's still there. There are beings in agony and they don't know anything about your idea that their suffering doesn't matter.

People suffer in dreams all the time, it's all fabricated, nothing there has any substance, but they suffer.

Putting an end to suffering is very important and should never be forgotten.
And no matter where suffering is, whether it's you or someone else, it is worth it to work to put an end to it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:12 am 
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Ramon1920 wrote:
ground wrote:
Why "desparation" and why "put an end to permanently"? Ideas are just ideas, perceptions just perceptions, experiences just experiences, identity fabrications just identity fabrications. :sage:


Because suffering is just suffering.

Well I can understand that if you suffer from ideas, perceptions, experiences and identity fabrications that you want to put an end to all these.

But hey, ideas are just ideas, perceptions just perceptions, experiences just experiences, identity fabrications just identity fabrications. So from my perspective no need to put an end to these. But I do not want to persuade you to anything because after all you are in your shoes and I in mine. :sage:


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