Azidonis wrote: gregkavarnos wrote:
23 pages later and nobody has been willing to offer a serious answer to this question. It is probabaly the seventh time (at least) that it has been asked and it'll be the seventh time (at least) that it won't be answered.
That's why I asked it again. It seems this entire thread revolves around this one question, which those who want to continually maintain a definite existence of a self, or ghost in the shell, are dancing around constantly.
Where is this "Self"?
Can anyone show it to me?
Azidonis nobody is dancing around your question for 23 pages this question has been answered repeatedly
WHO is seeking the Self?
WHO is asking for it to be shown to them?
the answer is the false worldy self that is based off the 5 aggregates of Dependent orgination is seeking.this WHO(you) is apart of Samsara itself.its that which clings to the 5 aggregates which are themselves derived from ignorance(one of the 3 poisons).
which is why I posted the Lotus sutra qoute to you.
Lotus sutra says (chapter 2) "I will say no more.Why?Because what the Buddha has acheived is the rarest and most difficult to understand Law.The true entity of all phenomena can only be understood and shared between Buddhas"
This qoute shows you that "you" "i" or any personality/identity that is based on the 5 aggreagates CANNOT understand the True Self which is Enlightenment for Enlightenment(True Self) is beyond observation of the "i" personaility conciousness based on the the 5 aggreagtes. so when you or anyone asks us WHY "I" cant observe the Self,I simply point to the sutras that also tell you that the "i"(you) that is based on 5 aggreagtes CANNOT observe the True entity of all Phenomena cause (it) can ONLY be understood and shared between Buddhas(Enlightenened)
do you know why?this is because they(Buddhas/Enlightenment) are outside the 5 aggregates which have as their source Ignorance,as their origin Ignorance and are born and produced from ignorance.(look up and study 12 links of Dependent origination to see the 5 aggregates have their origin in ignorance,also look up the 3 poisons which states the Buddha has no (ignorance,greed,anger)the 5 aggregates consiuosness(you)are from ignorance,and the Buddha/Enlightenement is outside and beyond Ignorance(your 5 aggreagate conciousness)which is why the Lotus sutra chapt 2 states what it states.
Hence Enlightenent/True Self is outside your realm of preception=which is based on Dependent origination.
also i ask you
(1)is a Buddhas enlightenment Permenent or impermenant?(does the Buddha Lose his enlightenement)
(2)is the Buddhas Enlightenment Eternal/everlasting or does enlightenement cease?
(3)is Enlightenment unchanging or does it change?(note if it changes then that means it is apart of D.O since it changes dependent upon object/preception which would mean enlightenment has its origin in Ignorance)
Do you Azidonis accept that this question has not been "danced around" and that the answer that has been provided?
Peace and Love