futerko wrote:What I meant was that the rock was an object for mind, within mind rather than outside of mind. Otherwise you risk setting up a dualism between mind and matter, which would seem more in keeping with some of the ancient Greek philosophers, Descates, and modern science.
Theravada considers the mahabhuta as existent elemental phenomena, so we find the notion existent in Buddhism too. I tend to lean more towards the Theravada take on this matter: ie that rocks are objects of mind as the label "rock" but there is something there (dependently arisen) that we "project" the label onto. It is not as if the rock vanishes when we lose awareness of it, otherwise somebody else couldn't come along and stub their toe on it, could they?
It would also suggest one possible division between self and mind would be that known objects are either considered to be mine or not on the basis of an arbitrary line which fails to take into account the idea that all known objects are in fact internal to mind (rather than "of the self").
When I leave the house I live in to go shopping (a house which I call a home), a burglar still sees a house there to break and enter. Of course how they see the house is different to how I see it (ie more like a department store where all the merchandise is free, rather than a home) but they still see a "house".
Of course, ultimately speaking there is no house there, it is just a conglomeration of a variety of dependently arisen phenomena which themselves are... ad nauseum.
BUT we must never forget that as long as we dwell in ignorance (and afterwards too) there are two truths: ultimate and relative, and it is not that one truth is more important than the other, it's just that the two truths become inseperable for an enlightened being.
I wonder, regarding hell beings, if they therefore have similar issues with self/not-self and concepts of possession?
I imagine that it would be a precondition for being a hell being. If they didn't then a) they wouldn't be in hell because b) they would be enlightened.