theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

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villkorkarma
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theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by villkorkarma »

dalai lama has said that own enligthenment for just oneself isnt real enligthenment. Why´s that`?
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Seishin
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by Seishin »

He means practicing a path for ones own gain and not helping other people. Plenty of Theravada Buddhists do Bodhisattva work helping other people. And plenty of Mahayana Buddhists are selfish and only after personal gain and vica versa. This is what we call the human condition. :smile: I'm a Mahayana Buddhist, sometimes I can be really selfish but other times I can be very generious. It's part of my practice to not be so selfish :smile:

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ram peswani
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by ram peswani »

[*]
villkorkarma wrote:dalai lama has said that own enligthenment for just oneself isnt real enligthenment. Why´s that`?
Guatam buddha trained disciples in Thervada meditation till they reached an important station of
an Arhat/ Arihant. This stage is where one gets to know himself and we say that he is enlightend.

But Buddhism starts therafter on Mahayana path for benefit for others and Nirvana is the end station.
lowlydog
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by lowlydog »

villkorkarma wrote:dalai lama has said that own enligthenment for just oneself isnt real enligthenment. Why´s that`?
The Buddha taught no-self, he rediscovered a path one may follow to eradicate the ego. An enlightened or fully awakened being has completely purified mind, and eradicated the ego, this has benifit for all living beings. One who thinks "I" am enlightened is under the delusion of the ego, this is not real enlightenment.

There is no difference between Theravaden and Mahayana Buddhism, but the "I" will find some for sure. :smile:
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catmoon
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by catmoon »

I have a problem with the title. I think there are certainily enlightened Theravadins, perhaps more so than many other branches of Buddhism. And I doubt very much that the Dalai Lama meant what you think he did.
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Nothing
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by Nothing »

villkorkarma wrote:dalai lama has said that own enligthenment for just oneself isnt real enligthenment. Why´s that`?
Source / link ?

Think he is talking about "FULL" enlightenment.
JKhedrup
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by JKhedrup »

The source or link would be great to have. It is very difficult to comment given we only have one sentence of information. Context of the remark will help us understand better the full import of HH´s words.
villkorkarma
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by villkorkarma »

My mistake, iI wrote wrong, dalai lama said: its important to help other people. according to my own way It isnt right to not be helpfull to other beings
book is called my way to sucess.
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by Rakshasa »

It is believed that Buddhaghosha, the famous Theravadin monk, who translated many Sri Lankan Buddhist scriptures into Pali and wrote Vishuddhimagga, eventually went to Tusita heaven to meet Maitreya and start coursing through the Bodhisattva Path to attain Buddhahood.

The disciples of Buddha were not "Theravada", "Hinayana" or "Mahayana", they were just termed Arhats. Buddha himself used to characterize himself as a perfect "Arhat". I think all these differences have more to do with etymology of terms, than to the notions associated with them. For example, the English word "nice" once used to refer to something bad!

I think the peculiarity of the term "Bodhisattva" lies in the fact that even lay disciples can be referred by this term unlike Arhats who can only be monks or nuns. Till you reach the 9th Bodhisattva Bhumi, you are still less spiritually attained than an Arhat. That says a lot.
floating_abu
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by floating_abu »

Any student who practices well is worthy of respect no matter what tradition their in, IMO, and any student who genuinely wishes to attain to the practices, insights and truths of the practice is worthy of help IMO.
Regardless of tradition or label, which was always just an after-the-fact requirement anyway, not reflective of the actual (living) status. IMO.

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greentara
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by greentara »

You're putting the cart before the horse. First there is enlightenment then the revelation there is no other, as all is one.
TaTa
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by TaTa »

According to the previous Kalu Rinpoche the hinayana path doesnt get full complete enlighments because they don't fully attain the realization of shunyata. The shravaka path leads to the realization of emptiness of self but not of all phenomena, resulting in arhatship. The pratyekabuddha path leads to the realization of no self and a partial realization of emptiness of phenomena. They came to see all phenomena as made by small particules or atoms. Although they are high realized beeings the cant help much because of state of arahat is almost static and it lucks in communication.

This is what ive read in "fundaments of tibetan buddhism" by kalu rinpoche.

Sory about my english
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by kirtu »

Rakshasa wrote: I think the peculiarity of the term "Bodhisattva" lies in the fact that even lay disciples can be referred by this term unlike Arhats who can only be monks or nuns.
Lay disciples can in fact become Arhats. However in the Theravadin tradition it is taught that a lay person attaining Arhathood has to become a monk or nun within a short time (like a day) or else they would die. I don't know what they base this on however. But technically lay disciples can in fact become Arhats.

Kirt
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by Konchog1 »

kirtu wrote:Lay disciples can in fact become Arhats. However in the Theravadin tradition it is taught that a lay person attaining Arhathood has to become a monk or nun within a short time (like a day) or else they would die. I don't know what they base this on however. But technically lay disciples can in fact become Arhats.

Kirt
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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

kirtu wrote:However in the Theravadin tradition it is taught that a lay person attaining Arhathood has to become a monk or nun within a short time (like a day) or else they would die.
To be frank, it sounds like it just exists to create sectarian superiority.
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by Red Faced Buddha »

villkorkarma wrote:dalai lama has said that own enligthenment for just oneself isnt real enligthenment. Why´s that`?
Funny because Theravada was around before Mahayana.
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by Huseng »

kirtu wrote: Lay disciples can in fact become Arhats. However in the Theravadin tradition it is taught that a lay person attaining Arhathood has to become a monk or nun within a short time (like a day) or else they would die. I don't know what they base this on however. But technically lay disciples can in fact become Arhats.

Kirt
In Chinese I've read one eminent author who insists that arhatship isn't possible without formal renunciation.

I think what they mean is that they need to take up celibacy and eliminate all lust, though I don't see why formal renunciation would be necessary for that.
Sherlock
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by Sherlock »

This is current by the Milinda Panha but although there were early Buddhists who held opposing opinions on the idea of lay arhats remaining outside formal renunciation as preserved in the Kathavatthu.
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seeker242
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by seeker242 »

I don't ever recall the Dalai Lama saying theravada buddhist doesn't get real enlightenment. What he is saying IMO, is that selfish people don't get real enlightenment, which is quite reasonable to say. :)
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Re: theravadabuddhist doesnt get real enlightenment

Post by kirtu »

tomamundsen wrote:
kirtu wrote:However in the Theravadin tradition it is taught that a lay person attaining Arhathood has to become a monk or nun within a short time (like a day) or else they would die.
To be frank, it sounds like it just exists to create sectarian superiority.
Howso?
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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