Scientific Evidence for Rebirth

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Re: Scientific Evidence for Rebirth

Postby dharmagoat » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:01 am

Huseng wrote:
dharmagoat wrote:I take it that the pleasure is not mutual.

I was trying to exercise subtle humour. :smile:

:smile:
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Re: Scientific Evidence for Rebirth

Postby Rakshasa » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:45 pm

Most of us can't remember our past lives because not all of us were human beings in the immediate past. Some of us were animals or other being whose memories are not as good as humans or other higher beings.

Heck! I cant even remember my early childhood years very clearly, much less a past life. Its not that memory has a limit or is exhaustible, but the ability to access memories is not inexhaustible.
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Re: Scientific Evidence for Rebirth

Postby underthetree » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:58 pm

I hover between skepticism and the experientially reinforced suspicion that individual consciousness arises in all pervading, beginningless and endless mind like a ripple in water, is reabsorbed, rises again. Which, as Huseng says, is unlikely to be provable under laboratory conditions...

...although I might just be thinking of that Grateful Dead song.

Either way, we'll find out sooner or later. Or not.
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Re: Scientific Evidence for Rebirth

Postby Indrajala » Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:09 pm

underthetree wrote:I hover between skepticism and the experientially reinforced suspicion that individual consciousness arises in all pervading, beginningless and endless mind like a ripple in water, is reabsorbed, rises again. Which, as Huseng says, is unlikely to be provable under laboratory conditions...

...although I might just be thinking of that Grateful Dead song.

Either way, we'll find out sooner or later. Or not.


Sounds like panpsychism.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panpsychism/
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Re: Scientific Evidence for Rebirth

Postby Nosta » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:46 pm

I dont remember any past life and I never had any highly developed skill as we may expect while believing on rebirth. Dor example a musician could show great skill with music on next life, very early. Even so, I remember that while i was a little boy (5-7 years or even less perhaps) I would reflect (not only tought, but reflect, think deeply) on things like the nature of existence and nature of self. I asked myself many times what means to be "me" or "I", what is that? I asked also what would feel like being dead, and i couldnt imagine a time without "I". I would think also on infinite/limitless. Also, i would try to "feel" and understand how existence was before i was born: where was I; where could I exist? I remember also that I would cry when thinking on old age, because thats when someone is near departing. When growing up I had lots of curiosity on many subjects, like Universe, black holes, atoms, nature, planets, human body, etc (but i think that such curiosity is a natural think on kids supported by their parents).

Anyway, maybe my strange toughts, so early on y life, could come from my past life. Who knows.
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Re: Scientific Evidence for Rebirth

Postby dzoki » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:40 pm

I used to have some mannerism, which I believe comes from my past life. Strangely enough it was strongest when I was 16 years old, this was the time when I started to be interested in Dharma. As a small child I would never kill an animal, even an insect. Later while all the guys of my age group were horny as a hell, I didn´t have this feeling and I was always rather shy around women. I thought that alcohol was an evil poison and wouldn´t have a drink eventhough everybody else from highschool would go to have a beer or two. When I was laughing I used to cover my mouth and also I used to walk in a manner as if I was holding my robes, which was later pointed out to me by a buddhist friend. :smile: When I read ngondro of Longchen Nyingthig for the first time in Tibetan it sounded so familiar to me. A text that I had was a faulty one, and the place where the mistakes were seemed obviously faulty to me. So I went to check with another version of the text that I got a I saw that indeed there were omissions at those places. Also as I child I used to have recurring nightmares related to my past death. Who knows maybe I was a monk in the past life. If that was true, I must have been a lousy practitioner, and being trapped in samsara as I am now, what difference does it make? :D
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Re: Scientific Evidence for Rebirth

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:24 pm

Nosta wrote:What i dont get about rebirth is how can it be possible to exist so many people remembering past lifes as humans and no one remembering their life as an ant, a horse, a ghost, a demon, a god, etc.
I believe that this occurs because we are so used to a certain way of perceiving and experiencing that even if we were to have a memory of a past life experience (ie when we were in a non-human form) it will be completely incomprehensible to us in our current state.

I mean, imagine you were a cockroach in your previous life. How does a cockroach experience? How do they see, smell, hear etc...? Okay, we could possibly identify with some of a cockroaches emotional states: fear, hunger, etc... but even then these states would be based in a certain mode of experience that is completely alien to us.

So, I believe, that it's not that people do not have memories from non-human existences, but maybe that they will not (or cnnot) be recognised as memories.
:namaste:
Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Scientific Evidence for Rebirth

Postby dzoki » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:07 pm

In one book the late Seung Sahn pointed out that there are people who are extremely attached to a certain animal. For example he said that he knew a woman who loved snakes more than humans. He said that in his view this is a residue from her past life as a snake. So people might not have memories, but sometimes I think it is possible to discern from their behavior traits that they could have been in the animal realm in the past life. Some other teacher jokingly said that people who were animals in the past life might not be brightest ones :D Looking at the dancing parrots, it makes me think, that this is where many of those disco-maniacs from 70´s go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYMBIGTteWA
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Re: Scientific Evidence for Rebirth

Postby dharmagoat » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:05 pm

dzoki wrote:I used to have some mannerism, which I believe comes from my past life. Strangely enough it was strongest when I was 16 years old, this was the time when I started to be interested in Dharma. As a small child I would never kill an animal, even an insect. Later while all the guys of my age group were horny as a hell, I didn´t have this feeling and I was always rather shy around women. I thought that alcohol was an evil poison and wouldn´t have a drink eventhough everybody else from highschool would go to have a beer or two. When I was laughing I used to cover my mouth and also I used to walk in a manner as if I was holding my robes, which was later pointed out to me by a buddhist friend. :smile: When I read ngondro of Longchen Nyingthig for the first time in Tibetan it sounded so familiar to me. A text that I had was a faulty one, and the place where the mistakes were seemed obviously faulty to me. So I went to check with another version of the text that I got a I saw that indeed there were omissions at those places. Also as I child I used to have recurring nightmares related to my past death. Who knows maybe I was a monk in the past life. If that was true, I must have been a lousy practitioner, and being trapped in samsara as I am now, what difference does it make? :D

I have had very similar experiences, and have also noted in the past that would walk as if I was holding robes. As a child, I had a vivid dream where I experienced my own violent death in a setting that I now recognise as resembling a Tibetan monastery. More curiously, my first statements as an infant could be interpreted as being in the Tibetan language. I could go on to list several more experiences. Yet I remain unconvinced.
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Re: Scientific Evidence for Rebirth

Postby Nosta » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:59 pm

Altought what i said about my child experiences, i dont think that i was a monk in my past life, as you think about your past life.
Maybe i was someone interested in life and existence in general. I dont know.
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Re: Scientific Evidence for Rebirth

Postby Indrajala » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:55 am

gregkavarnos wrote:So, I believe, that it's not that people do not have memories from non-human existences, but maybe that they will not (or cnnot) be recognised as memories.
:namaste:


I think this same principle applies to recollecting memories from infancy. At that early age perception is not so rigidly tied to language and reified forms. There are sensations, but not being tied to language or identifiable forms makes it perhaps difficult to recall, though it is possible.
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Re: Scientific Evidence for Rebirth

Postby Indrajala » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:00 am

We also have the testimonies of authoritative figures who can speak to their own experience of recollecting past lives:

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