Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:07 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:18 pm
Posts: 98
Location: Bellefonte, PA
If one is practicing Chod, may one also perform wrathful practices?

_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Posts: 2808
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
What do you mean by "wrathful practices?"

Do you mean "perform sadhana of wrathful yidams?" Or do you mean something else...some sort of "activity?"

_________________
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:18 pm
Posts: 98
Location: Bellefonte, PA
conebeckham wrote:
What do you mean by "wrathful practices?"

Do you mean "perform sadhana of wrathful yidams?" Or do you mean something else...some sort of "activity?"


Oh, yes, I mean sadhana of wrathful yidams. Ha, ha, no activity here!
I have taken on Daily Dorje Drolo Practice and now I have been accepted to have Chod transmission and teachings. I am concerned that I may need to give up Dorje Drolo to practice Chod properly but this does not feel correct. I will of course ask the Lama, in the mean time I was hoping for input to calm my mind and remove obstructions so I may be properly prepared for transmission and practice.

_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Posts: 2808
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
There's no contradiction.

In Kagyu three year retreats, chod is practiced daily. Dorje Drollo is also practiced as a main practice.
And of course daily protector practices, Kilaya practice......there are "wrathful" practices that are practiced daily.

_________________
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:54 pm
Posts: 1850
Hm I've heard that when practicing Chod one shouldn't do wrathful practices. They're kind of opposites - in Chod you offer your body to all, in wrathful practice you destroy negativity... Though in retrospect I'm not 100% sure how it was meant. Maybe not to do one right after the other, like in the same session.

_________________
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:22 pm
Posts: 133
Depending on how you do it, and the sadhana in particular, Chöd itself can be extremely wrathful. For instance, it may involve transforming into the extremely wrathful yidam Troma Nagmo. Of course, you don't mix the sadhanas (such as in the case if you are doing a yidam practice separate from the Chöd) but do them in a sequence. In which order you should perform the sadhanas may play a role though.

I am not advising you on your practice, just offering some general perspectives. Sounds like you need help organizing your daily practice. Ask your lama, or possibly a senior student that you trust in the Sangha.

Best Wishes,

Jens


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm
Posts: 1565
swampflower wrote:
conebeckham wrote:
What do you mean by "wrathful practices?"

Do you mean "perform sadhana of wrathful yidams?" Or do you mean something else...some sort of "activity?"


Oh, yes, I mean sadhana of wrathful yidams. Ha, ha, no activity here!
I have taken on Daily Dorje Drolo Practice and now I have been accepted to have Chod transmission and teachings. I am concerned that I may need to give up Dorje Drolo to practice Chod properly but this does not feel correct. I will of course ask the Lama, in the mean time I was hoping for input to calm my mind and remove obstructions so I may be properly prepared for transmission and practice.


Hi Swamp,
You can definitely do both.
Ask Rinpoche, I'm sure he can provide you with some insight.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:18 pm
Posts: 98
Location: Bellefonte, PA
Yes, thanks to all!
As my Yidam Deity is a Wrathful manifestation of Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava my Lama has advised for me to continue this practice.
I will perform Yidam Deity practice first in the morning, then move on to my Chod practice.
:namaste:

_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:22 am
Posts: 84
I think it's important to note a couple of things regarding Chod and wrathful practice. On the one hand, the wrathful expulsion of demons, obstructors, etc. is the antithesis of Chod. For that reason, you [generally] never see a Geg Tor in a Chod Tsog (the Torma for the obstructors). It's definitely the "feed, not fight" mentality.
On the other hand, some Chod sadhanas actually include extremely wrathful activity. The opening Wangdu Zilnon (Overwhelming with Majestic Splendour) section of many Terma Chod sadhanas utilizes all four of the Four Thrinley, including the annihilation. Sometimes this is indicated with a HUNG HUNG HUNG PHAT!
Take, for instance, the Chod Cham (dance) in the Khando Kegyang, Jigme Lingpa's Chod. In it, the practitioner wrathfully emanates and basically spars with a demon before restraining it and pitching a tent on it. It also advocates for some wrathful processes of exterminating hard-to-manage frightful appearances/demons, if the LuJin alone does not subdue them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:22 am
Posts: 84
This question has been on my mind a lot in the past couple of weeks. Just found this quote from "Machig's complete explanation" that quite aptly answers the question of wrathful practice.
"Do not beat down, drive out, or torture other beings by instigating harm on hostile, nonhuman sentient beings through charmed substances (rdzas thun), wrathful mantras, or doing wrathful practice. If you beat them down and drive them out, you contradict me and have lost the way of Chöd. On the other hand, if my followers do not tame these hostile demons that harm other sentient beings, it also runs contrary to me. Therefore, the method to tame demons is to give up your cherishing fixation on the body and give your life and limb to those demons without hesitation. That is the way to tame the demons." (Harding, 207).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:41 am 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Posts: 2940
Location: Space is the Place
JinpaRangdrol wrote:
This question has been on my mind a lot in the past couple of weeks. Just found this quote from "Machig's complete explanation" that quite aptly answers the question of wrathful practice.
"Do not beat down, drive out, or torture other beings by instigating harm on hostile, nonhuman sentient beings through charmed substances (rdzas thun), wrathful mantras, or doing wrathful practice. If you beat them down and drive them out, you contradict me and have lost the way of Chöd. On the other hand, if my followers do not tame these hostile demons that harm other sentient beings, it also runs contrary to me. Therefore, the method to tame demons is to give up your cherishing fixation on the body and give your life and limb to those demons without hesitation. That is the way to tame the demons." (Harding, 207).


It really has to do with one's lineage, and what the Guru instructs. . .

_________________
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:00 am
Posts: 17
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Does Throma Nagmo have any separate sadhana of her own apart from the Chöd ritual?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
Kilaya wrote:
Does Throma Nagmo have any separate sadhana of her own apart from the Chöd ritual?



Yes. Many.

N

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:00 am
Posts: 17
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Namdrol wrote:
Kilaya wrote:
Does Throma Nagmo have any separate sadhana of her own apart from the Chöd ritual?



Yes. Many.

N


Is her specific activity similar to that of Sengdongma?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:22 am
Posts: 84
Kilaya wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Kilaya wrote:
Does Throma Nagmo have any separate sadhana of her own apart from the Chöd ritual?



Yes. Many.

N


Is her specific activity similar to that of Sengdongma?


Similar, sure... but it sort of depends on whether you're referring to the Nyingma Sengdongma or the Sarma Sengdongma from the Chakrasamvara Tantra.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
JinpaRangdrol wrote:
Nyingma Sengdongma or the Sarma Sengdongma from the Chakrasamvara Tantra.


They are the same. They both use the 14 syllable mantra. The sole difference is whether it is kama or terma. Nyingma Simhamukha is all terma. Kama Simhamukha comes from Bari Lotsawa through Sakya.

N

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
Kilaya wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Kilaya wrote:
Does Throma Nagmo have any separate sadhana of her own apart from the Chöd ritual?



Yes. Many.

N


Is her specific activity similar to that of Sengdongma?


The kama origin of Krodhakali is the mahāsiddha Virupa who received the sadhana for Krodhakali in Oddiyāna. This sadhana was introduced to Tibet by Padampha Sangye.

The remaining Krodhakali practices are all terma, beginning with the Krodhakali practice of Nyang Ral Nyima Ozer.

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:00 am
Posts: 17
Location: Budapest, Hungary
I meant that - apart from the obvious goal of attaining realization - Simhamukha's sadhana is connected with averting negative forces and black magic. Does the same go for Throma Nagmo, or is there any other specific activity she is related with?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:55 pm
Posts: 1054
Location: Sunny California
Kilaya wrote:
I meant that - apart from the obvious goal of attaining realization - Simhamukha's sadhana is connected with averting negative forces and black magic. Does the same go for Throma Nagmo, or is there any other specific activity she is related with?


The focus of the most widely practiced Throma cycle today--the Dudjom Lingpa's Throma Nagmo--is the realization of sherab, transcendent knowingness. Great lamas when teaching the public in this cycle, may emphasize the Indian roots of Vajravarahi, the feminine principle in general, the chod, Dzogchen, or the unity of all these.

The cycle, however, contains many different activity practices, e.g. benefiting the dead, healing, wrathful, and weather controlling.

_________________
My blog:
http://onsausalcreek.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group