Question about Zen School

[pueraeternus]

While I always try to use "Chan" with respect to the Chinese tradition(s), and this is fairly the norm in academia, the realm of online internet forums is something else...

~~ Huifeng

That's true. And I guess it does not help that even established teachers/schools identify themselves as Zen, even when they are really not. For example, Thich Nhat Hanh's Zen is really not "Zen".

[seeker242]

Do you have to be invited to learn & study Zen or can you do that on your own? thanks.

You really don't have to be invited, so to speak. A lot of zen teachers have already "pre-invited" everyone. So you can just walk in and say "Hi, I'd like to learn how to practice and study zen" They will say "Hi! Ok, come on in!" But most dedicated zen students eventually wind up finding a teacher as there is no good reason not to. But if you don't have access to a teacher, there is no reason why you can't practice on your own. But a teacher is like a guide, it's always beneficial to have a guide.

[Huifeng]

While I always try to use "Chan" with respect to the Chinese tradition(s), and this is fairly the norm in academia, the realm of online internet forums is something else...

~~ Huifeng

That's true. And I guess it does not help that even established teachers/schools identify themselves as Zen, even when they are really not. For example, Thich Nhat Hanh's Zen is really not "Zen".

Agreed. I think part of it is that many of the non-Japanese established teachers, when going to English (or other Western language) settings, ask their local disciples what term to use, and those disciples say "Zen". They then get used to using this term. Only some time later, when they get to see the clearer picture, it is already too late to change.

At FGS at least, early on people used to use "Zen" a lot. A number of us have managed to break that old habit, and now "Chan" is the normal term we use. Phew!

~~ Huifeng

[Wesley1982]

Thus far, it seems like Soto zen has little to do with the Magga - Path to Liberation or being a follower of Jesus.

Unless, Dogen trod the Path.

[Fu Ri Shin]

Thus far, it seems like Soto zen has little to do with the Magga - Path to Liberation

It can seem like that at times, but Soto is most definitely about the path. Though the path often is presented as no-path (or you can think of it as the opposite).

or being a follower of Jesus.

What does Jesus have to do with Buddhadharma?

Unless, Dogen trod the Path.

He did.

[Wesley1982]

What does Jesus have to do with Buddhadharma?

Very little to do with its philosophical context.

You might want to see this thread: Buddhist opinions about the Historical Jesus ~

search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&keywords=buddhist+opinions+about+the+historical+jesus . . .

[Fu Ri Shin]

I'm aware of the speculation around Jesus and Buddhist teachings. It's just that saying Soto doesn't seem to be much about following Jesus is a redundant statement, unless you're comparing it to Taizan Maezumi's lineage or other American Zen groups that have ties with Christians, and even then... Soto (and Buddhadharma) has no special relationship with the Christ to begin with, so I'm not sure what the dichotomy you've posited is based on.

[Bonsai Doug]

I do think it will be interesting to try and incorporate the art of Zen buddha into my Christian prayer life.

Perhaps you know of this:

Dan Rather, a one-time CBS anchor, asked Mother Teresa what she said to god during her prayers. She answered, "I don't say anything, I listen."
So Rather turned the question and asked, "Well then, what does God say to you?" To that Mother Teresa replied, "He doesn't say anything. He listens."

Sounds like "meditation" to me.

[Fu Ri Shin]

I do think it will be interesting to try and incorporate the art of Zen buddha into my Christian prayer life.

Oh, I get it now. Sorry, Wesley, I had managed to not read this post of your when first going over the thread.

In that case, if Soto doesn't seem compatible with your Christian prayer life, that's fine. You're the one looking to find an effective pairing and you get to make that call. However, as far as I know, the American Zen (and I do mean just of the Japanese strain; I'm not aware of this phenomenon in other American Buddhist groups) lineages that have self-identified Christian followers and teachers all have at least partial Soto roots. Not that this says anything special about comptability, since there's nothing strictly Soto about them, all having roots in multiple Japanese schools (to the best of my knowledge). My perhaps unclear point being, I just wouldn't discount Soto practice for your Christian prayer life too easily.

Let me know if you want any info on the American Zen lineages I mentioned. Might be a very good opportunity if there's a group near-ish to you. We can PM back and forth if you want to go into depth, whch I'd certainly be up for.

[Wesley1982]

Let me know if you want any info on the American Zen lineages I mentioned. Might be a very good opportunity if there's a group near-ish to you. We can PM back and forth if you want to go into depth, whch I'd certainly be up for.

That would be a start. My question about Buddhist school isn't about lineages but How to Follow the Path or How to do the Practice.

[Huifeng]

I do think it will be interesting to try and incorporate the art of Zen buddha into my Christian prayer life.

Perhaps you know of this:

Dan Rather, a one-time CBS anchor, asked Mother Teresa what she said to god during her prayers. She answered, "I don't say anything, I listen."
So Rather turned the question and asked, "Well then, what does God say to you?" To that Mother Teresa replied, "He doesn't say anything. He listens."

Sounds like "meditation" to me.

Great! So, Guan Shi Yin - the one who listens to the sounds of the world.

~~ Huifeng

[jundo cohen]

In the Soto corner of the Zen world where I sit, the main work is by you with your self. Nobody can do it for you, and nobody can give you many answers.

However, it is a good thing to have a Teacher and other experienced folks to lend an ear and offer guidance, and a Sangha of folks to support you and each other. Books are helpful, but can only go so far in that way.

It is a bit like learning to sail a boat on the open sea. You have to get out there and do the actual sailing ... just you and the wind and the sea ... but good to have some experienced old salts around to show one the ropes a bit, how to read the compass and handle a storm.

Gassho, Jundo