Daily life practice?

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby Astus » Fri May 30, 2014 10:23 am

duckfiasco wrote:The difficult point I think is the ceaseless, instantaneous identification with what the mind does. I see dukka woven into the mind but think "well, what else is there other than this churning out of thoughts, feelings etc.?"

It feels like trying to watch the surface of a lake, and bugs keep skittering by.
Now, they're going to do that no matter what, but I seem to pay attention to every single one to the point of exhaustion, and I've lost sight of the water's calm surface. All I see is bugs making endless ripples.


As long as one thinks that bugs should not be there, that the surface must be calm and peaceful, there will be dissatisfaction. What is dissatisfaction? When things don't match our expectations. Now, is the source of the problem found in the things or in the expectations? Or, in Zen lingo, do you hit the cart or the horse?

If you believe that you are your mind, your consciousness, your attention or whatever else, then you want to freeze it in some state you consider acceptable. If you want control over what happens, that is assuming a self. But if you want to disassociate from everything going on, that is also assuming a self. What you might want to see is that even when you get lost in a stream of ideas, that is as insubstantial as everything else. Don't consider one type of experience good and another type bad. That's because this kind of like-dislike attitude is the very problem. If you focus on the bugs, then just focus on them, it is the same awareness as the awareness of the whole lake. In fact, both are just temporary experiences. The question is whether you want to stay somewhere, want to move somewhere, or not.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4203
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby Lindama » Fri May 30, 2014 3:46 pm

old zen koan: abiding nowhere let the mind arise

when cooking rice, it is the next thing to do. when the zen mind is present, no need to add that me, myself and I is cooking rice, or that she wants it to be perfect. likewise, no need to add non-attachment or other ideas and distractions. when she sits in the zendo, there is no thought about burning the soup. If the soup burns, we have burnt soup. In the kitchen, she does not think of the zendo. she need not manuever anything... not a matter of trying to be non-attached, not zen mind.

it's simply daily life without devices
Lindama
 
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:26 pm

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby Simon E. » Fri May 30, 2014 4:16 pm

What, no saucepan ?
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2557
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby Lindama » Fri May 30, 2014 4:37 pm

good one, Simon... ofc sauce pan ... no robot tho
Lindama
 
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:26 pm

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby Alex123 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:40 am

Astus wrote:Abiding nowhere, or non-abiding, is the central teaching of prajnaparamita as well as zen. Understanding that already the mind is without any abode (fixed state) and phenomena are originally empty (without anything to hold on to), that is seeing nature (that change is universal) and not abiding anywhere.


I understand that I can't control mental states and that holding onto a certain state is futile. What often happens is that I can't seem to remember not to be abiding anywhere. This is a problem. I can't seem to always remember and do Hishiryo, etc. I wonder why.
Even the water melting from the snow-capped peaks can find its way to the ocean"
User avatar
Alex123
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:32 am

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby Mother's Lap » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:29 am

Alex123 wrote:That often happens is that I can't seem to remember not to be abiding anywhere. This is a problem. I can't seem to always remember and do Hishiryo, etc. I wonder why.

Because you need to break karmic habituation. Set aside an hour and just remain present, always aware of what your mind is thinking and feeling. If you're thirsty know that you're thirsty and get yourself a drink, "I am standing up, I am walking to the kitchen, I am grabbing a cup". You'll be distracted no doubt but bring that presence back whenever it happens and in the future when you dedicate more time to this it'll be easier until it itself becomes a constant natural mode.
Mother's Lap
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:05 pm

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby catmoon » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:39 am

I have this amazing ability.

In the twenty-foot walk from the computer to the kitchen, I can forget why I left the computer room, walk right through the kitchen into the next room, see there are no cigarettes on the table, go looking for a lighter, which takes me back through the kitchen where I will again forget what I was doing, get a glass of pepsi out of the fridge, wonder why there is an unopened box of mac and cheese sitting in there, return to the computer, see cigarettes on the desk, which reminds me I was going to have a smoke (or was I), go looking for a lighter, feel nature's call, take a leak, and return to the computer room and actually be surprised to see cigarettes on the desk.

I call this living in the moment. The cat just calls it plain old confusing.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
User avatar
catmoon
Former staff member
 
Posts: 2995
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:20 am
Location: British Columbia

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby Astus » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:15 am

Alex123 wrote:I understand that I can't control mental states and that holding onto a certain state is futile. What often happens is that I can't seem to remember not to be abiding anywhere. This is a problem. I can't seem to always remember and do Hishiryo, etc. I wonder why.


You say that holding onto a certain state is futile, then you call it a problem that you can't always do hishiryo. Isn't there a contradiction?
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4203
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby Dan74 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:05 pm

My sense is that hishiryo is not something you do. It happens when there is no grasping. No grasping after any state even hishiryo, no grasping after any knowing, full openness, full intimacy with what is.
User avatar
Dan74
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 685
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:59 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby Alex123 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:39 pm

Dan74 wrote:My sense is that hishiryo is not something you do. It happens when there is no grasping. No grasping after any state even hishiryo, no grasping after any knowing, full openness, full intimacy with what is.


Right, and how does one reach state where grasping doesn't occur?
Even the water melting from the snow-capped peaks can find its way to the ocean"
User avatar
Alex123
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:32 am

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby Astus » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:39 pm

Alex123 wrote:Right, and how does one reach state where grasping doesn't occur?


Through realising that there is nothing to grasp.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4203
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby Alex123 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Astus wrote:
Alex123 wrote:Right, and how does one reach state where grasping doesn't occur?


Through realising that there is nothing to grasp.


And how to realize that?

Thanks,

Alex
Even the water melting from the snow-capped peaks can find its way to the ocean"
User avatar
Alex123
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:32 am

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby LastLegend » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:11 pm

Alex123 wrote:
Astus wrote:
Alex123 wrote:Right, and how does one reach state where grasping doesn't occur?


Through realising that there is nothing to grasp.


And how to realize that?

Thanks,

Alex


Let me take a crack.

When you listen, that's you listen. When you see, that's you see. When you feel, that's you feel. I am talking you not your thoughts. Your thoughts cannot listen, see, and feel. Ever washed dishes but thinking about something else, that washing dishes is you.

Ever sit and eat with a very ordinary mind no worries no fears?

When thoughts arise, often get caught up with it. When that happens, can always go back to the present awareness-the same awareness that we see, feel, and listen.

Bodhidharma:

Buddha is Sanskrit for what you call aware, miraculously aware. Responding, arching your brows blinking your eyes, moving your hands and feet, its all your miraculously aware nature. And this nature is the mind. And the mind is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the path. And the path is Zen. But the word Zen is one that remains a puzzle to both mortals and sages. Seeing your nature is Zen. Unless you see your nature, it’s not Zen.

Some dude here on the forum said something like, "rest in awareness or the primordial nature."


If everything else fails, chant or recite a Buddha or Bodhisattva. This is powerful and it works. :lol:
The fastest and quickest way to understanding/wisdom is to recall a Buddha or Bodhisattva sincerely with a wish to gain wisdom and be free from suffering. There, I told you my secret. :)
Last edited by LastLegend on Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Linjii
―Listen! Those of you who devote yourselves to the Dharma
must not be afraid of losing your bodies and your lives―
User avatar
LastLegend
 
Posts: 2456
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby LastLegend » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:34 pm

Alex123 wrote:
Dan74 wrote:My sense is that hishiryo is not something you do. It happens when there is no grasping. No grasping after any state even hishiryo, no grasping after any knowing, full openness, full intimacy with what is.


Right, and how does one reach state where grasping doesn't occur?


How can we you reach you? You are as you are. Sit, walk, drive, wave, blink, see, move. The problem is we keep searching with thoughts for something something. Create something something with our thoughts.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Linjii
―Listen! Those of you who devote yourselves to the Dharma
must not be afraid of losing your bodies and your lives―
User avatar
LastLegend
 
Posts: 2456
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby Astus » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:22 am

Alex123 wrote:And how to realize that?


The answer to that is the complete teaching of the Buddha. Within that vast amount of methods there are the Zen techniques. And among Zen techniques there is the option to directly look at your mind - your complete realm of experience - and see whether there is any concrete, stable thing you can identify and grasp or not. And once you let all experiences appear as they are, you can see for yourself that they are ungraspable. In fact, letting them appear and seeing their ungraspability are one and the same. Letting things be as they are is the same as not seeking anything to rely on.

It is when one cannot just, so to say, relax, let go and open up, that all the methods from sitting posture, phrase contemplation and all the other skilful means come into the picture. They give some reason to stop grasping at ideas and feelings, or rather they are substitutes to the normal objects of attachment, however, they are still attachments and delusions. But unlike ordinary delusions, they might help one get over all clinging and false concepts.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4203
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby Dan74 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:58 am

Astus wrote:
Alex123 wrote:And how to realize that?


The answer to that is the complete teaching of the Buddha. Within that vast amount of methods there are the Zen techniques. And among Zen techniques there is the option to directly look at your mind - your complete realm of experience - and see whether there is any concrete, stable thing you can identify and grasp or not. And once you let all experiences appear as they are, you can see for yourself that they are ungraspable. In fact, letting them appear and seeing their ungraspability are one and the same. Letting things be as they are is the same as not seeking anything to rely on.

It is when one cannot just, so to say, relax, let go and open up, that all the methods from sitting posture, phrase contemplation and all the other skilful means come into the picture. They give some reason to stop grasping at ideas and feelings, or rather they are substitutes to the normal objects of attachment, however, they are still attachments and delusions. But unlike ordinary delusions, they might help one get over all clinging and false concepts.


:good:

I'd add that going back to the basics, and cleaning up our lives with small steps, is always good practice. Do good when an opportunity arises. Avoid harmful actions, even smallish ones. Purify. This is a good basis. Then contemplations of the teachings, meditation, koan work, chanting, etc. And bringing formal practice into everyday life as much as possible, so that a dividing line blurs. Life-practice, practice-life.
User avatar
Dan74
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 685
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:59 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:07 am

:good:



Thank you all for your wonderful replies,
Even the water melting from the snow-capped peaks can find its way to the ocean"
User avatar
Alex123
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:32 am

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby White Lotus » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:24 pm

my friend and teacher says: ''what you do inside the home will have a bearing on what you do outside the home.'' keeping a clean tidy flat is the ideal and disciplining oneself to do things in a pure way... even the smoking is done with mindfulness and gratitude. focusing on life is focusing on the way.

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
White Lotus
 
Posts: 592
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby LastLegend » Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:13 pm

Astus wrote:
Alex123 wrote:And how to realize that?


The answer to that is the complete teaching of the Buddha. Within that vast amount of methods there are the Zen techniques. And among Zen techniques there is the option to directly look at your mind - your complete realm of experience - and see whether there is any concrete, stable thing you can identify and grasp or not. And once you let all experiences appear as they are, you can see for yourself that they are ungraspable. In fact, letting them appear and seeing their ungraspability are one and the same. Letting things be as they are is the same as not seeking anything to rely on.


Does this mean we use no effort or intention because things appear as the are? Flow like the Dao with no blockage? A medium that connects with everything else? :lol:
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Linjii
―Listen! Those of you who devote yourselves to the Dharma
must not be afraid of losing your bodies and your lives―
User avatar
LastLegend
 
Posts: 2456
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Daily life practice?

Postby Astus » Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:24 pm

LastLegend wrote:Does this mean we use no effort or intention because things appear as the are? Flow like the Dao with no blockage? A medium that connects with everything else? :lol:


It is effortless if one has the clear realisation that appearances are without anything to grasp.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4203
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

PreviousNext

Return to Zen

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

>