Matylda wrote:So about whom are we talking here? about victims or supposedly zen practitioners? if it is latter case then give me a break.. pressure, what pressure? who can beliefe in such things? With old roshi is problem of rape? if he would do it to me I would rape him as well, we could compete who is tougher then... if a victim becomes zen practitioner then would only suffer... i know many cases like this.
Victims as in the women who were raped or abused by their Zen teachers. But as for pressure -- yes there is pressure. The fear of not being believed, the fear of having to go through everything that happened in court, the fear of being ostracized by the community who really wants to believe that their teacher wouldn't do such a thing. Feeling ashamed that it happened in the first place. Do you not understand how devastating rape and sexual abuse are?
careful with what? do not touch me, oh! do not beat me, oh! i am a victim, oh! I want to grow spiritually, oh! you know this is all nonsense in zen... due to his power master can use it freely to kill or give life. he is an emperor of the whole universe.. what kind of ZEN teachers do you want in the WEST? just say i will try to bring one from Japan, of course if i find one... many can die from laughter before arriving in the West..
How about not being groped, raped, or constantly hit on for starters. The teachers we need in the west are people who are responsible for their behavior and do not seek to harm their students. It really is that simple. It's not strange, not funny, it's completely sensible. Teachers should be just as accountable for their actions as anyone else. Also, the attitude in your posts proves my point about women being afraid to come forward.
wow discovery! but you have forgotten one thing.. in sex both parties have POWER operating.. and we women can put you poor guys including even monks or masters in a very miserable position, do you know??? I have seen it many times... both among Japanese and among Tibetans..
But some people have more power than others depending on the situation. In the case of these scandals, it's been male teachers taking advantage of female students. If a female teacher was behaving inappropriately with male students it would also be a problem, however, that's not what happened.
well i know even celibate teachers having sex... sorry not with me, but I know them.. not with students in Asia mostly they do not have lay students, or maybe sometimes.. but anyway they get some 'friends' in skirts...
exception is Taiwan and Maleysia.. Tibetan lamas had a lot of sex, so now there is a big opposition of husbands
Yes I am aware.
Actually I can tell you as for zen anything is ok for an enlightened master... he may even kill you if it will be beneficial for you... killing, stealing, sex etc. are ok in hands of genuine bodhisattva, who is zen master. Even 2nd master in China, Eka Daishi was an alcoholic and sexoholic by modern standards. He lost his arm in a drunken fight with some mugs in a liquor shop...
Ah, but can you tell who is enlightened? And if someone was enlightened wouldn't they know better than to engage in actions that will obviously cause harm?
why not, of course yes.. he would boil brains of those poor women. Attack was almost immediate, and he put in hell poor 'victims'... he was so rude! but wonderful wanted so much to liberate them from fixation of their own injuries and I,me obsession...
I'm not going to comment on this, since I have not entirely sure what you are referring to, and I'm not entirely sure you are understanding what myself and others have been saying. Do you understand what I mean by 'sexual harassment?'
Our laws and values are not any laws and values in fact... they are perfect means for slavery... to listen to demons that is all my comment... the only true moral is genuine dharma, dharma seals, no-I, selflesness etc. and of course law of karma.. those are very basics... if morals stem from it then it is genuine, if not then it is a fake moral, very very dependent, conditioned and subject to impermanence.. this is what society offers it is why it gets so quickly corrupt... and I only wonder when I see when buddhists in the West so obsessively stick to it.... so sad.
You keep spouting the same rhetoric which doesn't seem particularly grounded in reality. I'm going to step out and let other people respond. Maybe they can make more sense out of what you're saying. I will leave you with this, however. You seem to be suggesting that the only morality and law that counts is that which is in accordance with the dharma. Yet you are completely ignoring the third precept as well as right action and showing very little compassion for the suffering of others. Maybe you should consider these things a little more carefully.