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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:56 am 
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OK, here's a subject that's problematic and embarrassing.

I've done a bit of forum search and there are no big posts on the subject so I thought I'd bring it up as something I struggle with and I'm looking for a Buddhist approach to deal with it.

When I was a coming into puberty I was in a very dysfunctional household where I was lonely and had little other human contact. At an early age I started masturbating a lot and this has continued throughout my life till I find myself in the same situation as an adult man.

I have this thing where I get involved in a relationship and then watch pornography after which I feel guilty and unpleasant. When a relationship, when a woman leaves me I often watch pornography and then engage in some unwholesome fantasies involving her which make me feel bad after I've finished.

What is a good approach to dissolving this problem as it leaves me feeling aweful and is clearly a way to relieve anxiety or loneliness as opposed to being a healthy sexual act of any sort.

VH


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:00 am 
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Mod remark:

Please keep polite, mature and sensible on this issue. I feel this is a serious question and hope everyone here can respond to it in polite and reasonable language.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:11 am 
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If there is any levity please keep it wholesome... this is a serious question and causes a lot of people as much trouble as heroin or gambling, particularly young men in the age of internet porn?

VH


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:19 am 
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Part of you wants something, but part of you thinks you ought not to. You feel guilty, and you never really enjoy it anyway, but that is exactly why you keep repeating it.
I would speculate that many people will think you should work with your behaviour to stop it. Personally I would suggest the opposite - work with the guilt, learn to enjoy doing what you want, get it out of your system and then move on.
When meditating, an unwanted thought often creeps in. The more we try to repress it the more it insists. If we start thinking that was a "bad" thought then we start a chain of thinking that is often cyclical and we get wrapped up in feeling of guilt, etc. As we become more experienced, we find the best technique is to just let the thought pass, observing it without engaging with it.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:25 am 
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OK. In Vajrayana, for example, for someone who like to smoke and cannot stop. Normally, they will not ask you to stop immediately, because that is not possible anyway.

So, what is doing is you use your smoking as the path. How should they do it?
FOr example, immediately before you like to smoke, you will feel that smoking is really something pleasant event. This feeling can be extremely strong and look as if it is ABSOLUTELY true that smoking is joy. At that point, there is no way, you can see that smoking is not pleasant. You are like blind to your projection.

So, instead of stopping your smoking. You purposely smoke. But there is a different here. If before, you smoke without awareness. Now, you smoke with full curiosity. Now, you really challenge your previous projection. When you smoke, you really see how your projection change. In the first smoke, or second, or the tenth, probably, your projection of smoking is still true that smoking is pleasant, but when you keep smoking, then probably in the 15th or 16th smoke within the same ciggarate, then you can already start to see how your previous projection start to change. Probably at the end, you projection is completely change to smoking is not pleasant.

THen at that point, you can continue to smoke the second ciggarate, even you are already projecting that smoking is no longer pleasant. You can see that smoking is torturing. You can push yourself beyond the limit here.

This kind of smoking will then teach you something in terms of actual experience in seeing how deceptive it is our projection. You should see that although you really want to smoke, but in reality that projection is very hollow. Why is it hollow? Because from the surface, yes it really say smoking is fun, when you do it, the face of deception or the hollowness starts to reveal.

That event, then should make your understand what it means by not real. Not real doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It indeed happens, but the way it is happening is deceptive. The way your mind projecting smoking is real is deceptive.

When, your wisdom of this deception is then getting stronger and stronger, you will have a power to not be deceptive to smoke again. You can see the coming of this desire or projectionto smoke, but the strength of your wisdom is already able to withstand the delusiveness of that projection. When that strong desireness or delusiveness melts, your wisdom will be strengthen even further.

It is like the firewood, the more wood you put, the more your wisdom grow.

Initially, you will fail, because it is still weak. Never mind. In the long term, it will be ok.

This principle you can apply to your issue now. Before masturbate, you will see this desire, then you try 3 times in a row, :jumping: and see whether it is a joy or not.

It will give you direct experience in experiencing delusiveness in concrete and real way.

Not imagination or from reading the book.

Use poison to make the best out of that poison - which is direct experience of deceptiveness or hollowness in whatever you are projecting.

At the moment, you maintain your awareness in looking at the deceptiveness in that joy, that is your samadhi.
At the moment, you are seeing the whole process of deceptiveness or hollowness in that joy, that is your vipassana.

Ask this to yourself afterwards:
My projection seems real, why does it then change?
What is real then?
See the whole process of deception without any guilty feeling.

That is your direct dhamma beyond text.

In that activity like masturbate, your awareness is at extreme level and your awareness can be extremely strong and extremely vivid.

If you success in seeing the hollowness of your projection, it can be one event that make you realize emptiness for once and for all.

In extreme cases, the delusion can be atomic, but the realization of the reality is also atomic.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:51 am 
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vajrahorizon wrote:
I have this thing where I get involved in a relationship and then watch pornography after which I feel guilty and unpleasant. When a relationship, when a woman leaves me I often watch pornography and then engage in some unwholesome fantasies involving her which make me feel bad after I've finished.


This is a serious problem for a lot of men who have such ready access to pornography on the internet. I would venture to say a lot of men have an addiction, but don't recognize it as such or feel it is perfectly normal given the trend which encourages constant sexual gratification while disregarding any ideas of continence as backwards and unnatural (this is especially convenient for profiteers who benefit immensely from such mentalities).

I'm not some kind of prude and am quite liberal when it comes to sexuality, though I do believe excessive stimulation leads to mental and physical addiction. It is also detrimental to Buddhist practice. In the case of pornography addiction it can lead to erectile dysfunction even in young men as a result of over stimulation.

In the case of pornography, you might contemplate how you are only adding unnecessary fuel to the fire of saṃsāra in the form of kāma (desire). Kāma is what keeps us bound to the kāma-loka. It is the first fetter which impedes dhyāna. It compels us to engage in activities which are ultimately a source of suffering, both in this and future lives. Your life might be reasonably tolerable now, but rebirth in the kāma-loka can include the lower realms.

With such a contemplation you can examine the faults of consuming pornography.

If you fantasize about unwholesome deeds against women while masturbating, you might also contemplate how such karma (mental karma) is likewise going to ripen in the form of suffering. It also conditions the mind towards harmful acts against others. This will ripen in the form of suffering and direct you towards non-virtue in subtle ways.

Contemplating the faults as such, you can halt the act just as you would halt consuming a narcotic which will only result in suffering in some form or another.

Confession of all such past misdeeds might help as well. Recollect the misdeeds in full and confess to yourself the unwholesome deeds. Recognizing they are negative actions, vow to halt doing them. If you have any faith in the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, confess in front of an image, perhaps putting it in writing and vowing to halt the acts. Such vows are all the more solid.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:24 am 
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vajrahorizon wrote:
OK, here's a subject that's problematic and embarrassing.

I've done a bit of forum search and there are no big posts on the subject so I thought I'd bring it up as something I struggle with and I'm looking for a Buddhist approach to deal with it.

When I was a coming into puberty I was in a very dysfunctional household where I was lonely and had little other human contact. At an early age I started masturbating a lot and this has continued throughout my life till I find myself in the same situation as an adult man.

I have this thing where I get involved in a relationship and then watch pornography after which I feel guilty and unpleasant. When a relationship, when a woman leaves me I often watch pornography and then engage in some unwholesome fantasies involving her which make me feel bad after I've finished.

What is a good approach to dissolving this problem as it leaves me feeling aweful and is clearly a way to relieve anxiety or loneliness as opposed to being a healthy sexual act of any sort.

VH
Well, for one, it's not a purely sexual addiction. It's chemical. Like cigarettes or alcohol. Secondly, the guilt makes the addiction worse so generate Bodhicitta towards yourself. Third, find an enjoyable substitute for masturbation and do that instead whenever you feel the urge. Some hobbies I heard of being used for this are exercise, mediation, and partying. Just keep yourself busy and treat the disease (anxiety/loneliness) not the symptoms (masturbation).

You might find this interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU

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Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:38 pm 
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vajrahorizon wrote:
OK, here's a subject that's problematic and embarrassing.

I've done a bit of forum search and there are no big posts on the subject so I thought I'd bring it up as something I struggle with and I'm looking for a Buddhist approach to deal with it.

When I was a coming into puberty I was in a very dysfunctional household where I was lonely and had little other human contact. At an early age I started masturbating a lot and this has continued throughout my life till I find myself in the same situation as an adult man.

I have this thing where I get involved in a relationship and then watch pornography after which I feel guilty and unpleasant. When a relationship, when a woman leaves me I often watch pornography and then engage in some unwholesome fantasies involving her which make me feel bad after I've finished.

What is a good approach to dissolving this problem as it leaves me feeling aweful and is clearly a way to relieve anxiety or loneliness as opposed to being a healthy sexual act of any sort.

VH


Dude, chill. There's a similar topic going on in our sister forum dhamma wheel. I am currently writing on a guide about how to stop this. It is based on my experiences as I am a victim myself and of course the kind comments of our fellow forumers at our sister forum and here(this topic is new so it probably won't include much). Once it's finished I suggest you take a look at it as I can almost guarantee you that you can indeed stop the addiction afterwards :). In the meantime, I would suggest that you don't be too guilty about this, as it will make things worse. Trust me , I have been there, just try to not think about it too much, it's sort of a reverse psychology thing ya know. Trust me, I have been there, both porn and whanking

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:55 pm 
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First of all, I would like to say hi to our fellow forum members :).

:focus: Aged 21.I Just found my way to Buddhism recently. I have struggled for 5 years now, and still fail to quit porn and masturbation addiction. I decided to post my problem in this forum is because I recently successfully stopped mastirbation and porn for 21 consecutive days . On that 21th day itself, I failed to hold on . When I went to sleep with satisfaction,sexual taughts started appearing on my mind again. I am going to be real honest here. The reason I stopped for so long is because of determination, and occupied time. I went to be bed late everyday and did alot of exceecise .and I would try to chant simple verses like amitabha or the boddhisitiva(na mo guang do ying pu sa)

If I haven't made myself clear enough, feel free to ask . I really need the sincere help from you guys:(. Please keep it simple as I am new to Buddhism and I do not have much time for the iternet(At a bro"s cyber cafe while posting this). I will check every now and then(maybe thrice a day?) . I am a lay practitioner and the least I can do is stop this harmful and sinful addiction( I recently read the karma after mastirbation and porn)
Thanks for listening :)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:05 pm 
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Dharmastarter wrote:
First of all, I would like to say hi to our fellow forum members :).

:focus: Aged 21.I Just found my way to Buddhism recently. I have struggled for 5 years now, and still fail to quit porn and masturbation addiction. I decided to post my problem in this forum is because I recently successfully stopped mastirbation and porn for 21 consecutive days . On that 21th day itself, I failed to hold on . When I went to sleep with satisfaction,sexual taughts started appearing on my mind again. I am going to be real honest here. The reason I stopped for so long is because of determination, and occupied time. I went to be bed late everyday and did alot of exceecise .and I would try to chant simple verses like amitabha or the boddhisitiva(na mo guang do ying pu sa)

If I haven't made myself clear enough, feel free to ask . I really need the sincere help from you guys:(. Please keep it simple as I am new to Buddhism and I do not have much time for the iternet(At a bro"s cyber cafe while posting this). I will check every now and then(maybe thrice a day?) . I am a lay practitioner and the least I can do is stop this harmful and sinful addiction( I recently read the karma after mastirbation and porn)
Thanks for listening :)


Well, just stop. Let me know when you do and then you can teach others.

You can stop with porn because it can actually be harmful.

Overall I wouldn't take this sort of thing that seriously unless it's in the way of your life. This activity has negative karmic consequences but really, you aren't killing anyone. However it will keep you from Buddhahood. One thing to recognize is that the activity is quite self-centered. But it is also a normal sexual activity. Are you also ready to give up sex in general? Ah - you are also 21. Just stop the porn. It's normal but not helpful.

Kirt

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:19 pm 
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Two topics with similar titles and content started within a few days of each other have been merged into one topic.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Dharmastarter wrote:
First of all, I would like to say hi to our fellow forum members :).

:focus: Aged 21.I Just found my way to Buddhism recently. I have struggled for 5 years now, and still fail to quit porn and masturbation addiction. I decided to post my problem in this forum is because I recently successfully stopped mastirbation and porn for 21 consecutive days . On that 21th day itself, I failed to hold on . When I went to sleep with satisfaction,sexual taughts started appearing on my mind again. I am going to be real honest here. The reason I stopped for so long is because of determination, and occupied time. I went to be bed late everyday and did alot of exceecise .and I would try to chant simple verses like amitabha or the boddhisitiva(na mo guang do ying pu sa)

If I haven't made myself clear enough, feel free to ask . I really need the sincere help from you guys:(. Please keep it simple as I am new to Buddhism and I do not have much time for the iternet(At a bro"s cyber cafe while posting this). I will check every now and then(maybe thrice a day?) . I am a lay practitioner and the least I can do is stop this harmful and sinful addiction( I recently read the karma after mastirbation and porn)
Thanks for listening :)


You are only 21 my friend.

It would be abnormal NOT masturbating at your age.

And where did you get the idea you can't masturbate in Buddhism?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:18 pm 
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vajrahorizon wrote:
.... the age of internet porn?


Internet porn is a real problem. "The only winning move is not to play."

Kirt

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"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:50 pm 
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in moderation porn is fine.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:41 am 
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Well, I wanted to stop because I have read the karmic consequences of masturbation/porn. I just got this feeling I am going to lose my girl someday because of mastirbation :(. Pornography has been disturbing my mind for quite awhile. I have lost my concentration , from meditation to assignments .sometimes I skip dates and forget about important meet-ups because of this. I can't hold on to this addiction anymore .


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:33 am 
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Dharmastarter wrote:
Well, I wanted to stop because I have read the karmic consequences of masturbation/porn.



I don't know what you read, but I can assure you its nonsense.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:36 am 
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There is only skillful and unskillful (rather than right and wrong) in Buddhism, if I recall correctly. What pushes us toward liberation is skillful; the rest not so much. Maybe, we should look at all problems, including this specific OP, from this standpoint.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:29 am 
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Its a fabrication of Desirous attachment. Try meditating on the vileness of human bodies.

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Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:04 am 
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There is only one solution:

KRIYA BABY!

I suggest this one for your problem:



DO IT!

SWEAT!

Kevin

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:19 am 
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futerko wrote:
Part of you wants something, but part of you thinks you ought not to. You feel guilty, and you never really enjoy it anyway, but that is exactly why you keep repeating it.
I would speculate that many people will think you should work with your behaviour to stop it. Personally I would suggest the opposite - work with the guilt, learn to enjoy doing what you want, get it out of your system and then move on.
When meditating, an unwanted thought often creeps in. The more we try to repress it the more it insists. If we start thinking that was a "bad" thought then we start a chain of thinking that is often cyclical and we get wrapped up in feeling of guilt, etc. As we become more experienced, we find the best technique is to just let the thought pass, observing it without engaging with it.


:good:

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