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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:56 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:18 pm
Posts: 84
Osho wrote:
Is that a metaphor or do some people actually believe that sort of thing really happened?


Do you think NN spooked "metaphorically"? Or that the rainbow body phenomenon it's a myth? There are even researchers this days who wants to catch on video such a phenomenon.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:33 am 
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'Followers of the Way, the one right here before your eyes and listening to the Dharma is he who "enters fire without being burnt, goes into water without being drowned, and plays about in the three deepest hells, as if in a fairground; he enters the world of Pretas and dumb animals without being molested by them." Why is this so? Because there is nothing he dislikes. If you love the sacred and dislike the worldly, you will go on floating and sinking in the ocean of birth and death. The passions arise depending on the heart. If the heart is stilled, where then do you seize the passions? Do not tire yourselves by making up discriminations, and quite naturally, of itself, you will find the Way'
Rinzai
Do you want to be excited or calm?
Why all this talk of miracles? The greatest miracle is the stilling of passions and finding calm bliss. A tranquil mind equals a tranquil heart.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:20 am 
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greentara wrote:
Why all this talk of miracles?


Simple. Because a Dzogchen master sad that "If you can place your hand in fire without it being harmed, then I will consider you realized"

It's this not enough motive? Why always when such a subject is approached, the discussion deviates on such nice quotes, which are beautiful indeed, but still, a deviation. The founders where called "Mahasiddhas" exactly because of this kind of "miracles"/pragmatic proves of their complete realization. We should ignore this completely? Even when N.Norbu remeber us this aspects, so clearly and pragmatic?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:03 am 
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Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 10:57 am
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Location: Bangkok Thailand
:smile:
Just my personal opinion...but I take all this "decline of Buddhisim" talk as a bit of a joke.
I suspect that only a century after the death of Buddha there were already those who were complaining about the "decline of Buddhisim" then.
What they really meant was, I believe, the "decline" of their personal vision" of what "real Buddhisim" was.
But...not to be rude...their "personal view of real Buddhisim" and "real Buddhisim" (whatever that is) weren't the same thing then...exactly as I believe those speaking of the "decline of Buddhisim" today see what they call "real Buddhisim" today.
My personal opiniom is...it was an illusion then...and it's an illusion today.
:smile:

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Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:23 am 
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Location: Helsinki, Finland
Quiet Heart wrote:
:smile:
Just my personal opinion...but I take all this "decline of Buddhisim" talk as a bit of a joke.
:smile:


Dharma Ending Age is no joke.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:55 pm 
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Posts: 185
On topic and thanks for that answer to my query...
Doesn't the fashion for Buddhism ebb and flow in the west?
Zen was cool in Watts day. Tibetan has had a bit of a blip now and then depending on which celeb is promoting it. Richard Gere seems to have gone quiet of late. Pure Land never has got off the ground to any degree in the UK but there was a fashion for chanting a while back.
Maybe there's a bit of a lull at present but when this new Buddha movie comes out then possibly we'll see a rise in interest for a while.
Most areas such as ours attract religious tourists. Always on vacation metaphorically never 't home'. Wafting from one interest to the next. Some stick around and take Buddhism seriously most drift away after a while to pastures new.
Westerners in ethnic Buddhisms are always going to be that alien minority. Converts tend to be more zealous than birthright Buddhists so they are enthusiastic, and posting on here probably. Indigenous occidental streams such as ours [Amida/Tariki lines] in the UK are growing but slowly and numbers overall are tiny. Much the same seems to be the case in Europe.
We'll always be a minority interest and that's only to be expected, given the age we live in.
Namo Amida Bu.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:25 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:26 am
Posts: 189
Malcolm wrote:
I can think of at least five people within the past 15 years who acheived total realization -- two bonpo in Tibet, a couple of buddhist yogis in repkong, Khenpo Acho is famous. I am sure there are more.


Would love to hear stories of these people

Also I thought a Westerner did it as well


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
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Osho wrote:
On topic and thanks for that answer to my query...
Doesn't the fashion for Buddhism ebb and flow in the west?


Yes, I think so. This has less to do with Buddhism as such than with the preoccupations, needs (perceived and real), and social problems of the capitalist world.

Example: There has been recently an emphasis on "mindfulness" in a utilitarian sense: you practice mindfulness because your life is stressful (costs are increasing, wages are not, jobs are scarce, insecurity is contagious), you can't afford to take a proper vacation as in the Fordist years, so you have to cope somehow... hence, mindfulness has its moment in the workplace. A US Congressman has a book out on this topic, essentially claiming that mindfulness makes better citizens. &c. Is that Buddhism? Not really. It's just a moment in mass culture reflecting the real tensions in everyday life.

Meanwhile, the Buddhist teachings are available, good teachers are here and eager to find serious and committed students, so it's simultaneously true that North America & Europe are excellent places to be right now because the teachings are available and it's possible to practice in earnest here. what good fortune!

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