Discussion on Aversion

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby MalaBeads » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:33 pm

MalaBeads
 
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:47 am

Re: Large random shooting in Colorado

Postby Virgo » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:02 am

Simon E. wrote:
Simon E. wrote:If as the Buddha said according to the Pali Canon, sentient life is characterised by Dukkha Anatta and Anicca..then that will still be the characteristic of sentient life on 12/22/12 and thereafter.
Just as gravity will still be associated with mass on 12/22/12 and thereafter.
Duality is not resolved by buffing up the apparent separate world.
It happens at the level of individual insight.

By the way, 11:11 GMT 12/21/12 is the exact time of the Winter Solstice. You can check the US Naval Observatories website to confirm. The same day that the Mayan Calander ends, and the Aquarian Age begins (that calander, which was really an interactice three-wheeled calculation machine, was designed only for the Piscean Age). This age is different. And yes, according to buddhist texts, Buddhism will be practiced differently in the future (though dukkha will not be erased). In particular, they state that Dzogchen will spread across the earth and be practiced, if I am not mistaken. And at this time, not any other, this is happening. By the way, it is being spread by Uranian (which rules Aquarius) ruled things, such as aeroplanes, digital media, webcasts, and so forth (aquarius rules all types of communication and technology, etc). Kevin
ओं मणिपद्मे हूं
http://www.ripple.org

Kevin
. . .
User avatar
Virgo
 
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Globe

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby Norwegian » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:56 am

Virgo,
The same day that the Mayan Calander ends [...]


Misinterpretation of the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar is the basis for a popular belief that a cataclysm will take place on December 21, 2012. December 21, 2012 is simply the day that the calendar will go to the next b'ak'tun, at Long Count 13.0.0.0.0. The date on which the calendar will go to the next piktun (a complete series of 20 b'ak'tuns), at Long Count 1.0.0.0.0.0, will be on October 13, 4772.

Sandra Noble, executive director of the Mesoamerican research organization Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc.(FAMSI), notes that "for the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle". She considers the portrayal of December 2012 as a doomsday or cosmic-shift event to be "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in."


The Mayan calendar most definitely does not end in 2012.
Norwegian
 
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Large random shooting in Colorado

Postby Simon E. » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:06 am

Virgo wrote:
Simon E. wrote:
Simon E. wrote:If as the Buddha said according to the Pali Canon, sentient life is characterised by Dukkha Anatta and Anicca..then that will still be the characteristic of sentient life on 12/22/12 and thereafter.
Just as gravity will still be associated with mass on 12/22/12 and thereafter.
Duality is not resolved by buffing up the apparent separate world.
It happens at the level of individual insight.

By the way, 11:11 GMT 12/21/12 is the exact time of the Winter Solstice. You can check the US Naval Observatories website to confirm. The same day that the Mayan Calander ends, and the Aquarian Age begins (that calander, which was really an interactice three-wheeled calculation machine, was designed only for the Piscean Age). This age is different. And yes, according to buddhist texts, Buddhism will be practiced differently in the future (though dukkha will not be erased). In particular, they state that Dzogchen will spread across the earth and be practiced, if I am not mistaken. And at this time, not any other, this is happening. By the way, it is being spread by Uranian (which rules Aquarius) ruled things, such as aeroplanes, digital media, webcasts, and so forth (aquarius rules all types of communication and technology, etc). Kevin

Frankly I think it is sad to see this kind of bullshit perpetrated on a Buddhist forum.
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby pueraeternus » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:10 am

Norwegian wrote:Virgo,
The same day that the Mayan Calander ends [...]


Misinterpretation of the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar is the basis for a popular belief that a cataclysm will take place on December 21, 2012. December 21, 2012 is simply the day that the calendar will go to the next b'ak'tun, at Long Count 13.0.0.0.0. The date on which the calendar will go to the next piktun (a complete series of 20 b'ak'tuns), at Long Count 1.0.0.0.0.0, will be on October 13, 4772.

Sandra Noble, executive director of the Mesoamerican research organization Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc.(FAMSI), notes that "for the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle". She considers the portrayal of December 2012 as a doomsday or cosmic-shift event to be "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in."


The Mayan calendar most definitely does not end in 2012.


Actually, this is what really happened:
calendar bizarro.jpg
calendar bizarro.jpg (61.02 KiB) Viewed 561 times
When I set out to lead humanity along my Golden Path I promised a lesson their bones would remember. I know a profound pattern humans deny with words even while their actions affirm it. They say they seek security and quiet, conditions they call peace. Even as they speak, they create seeds of turmoil and violence.

- Leto II, the God Emperor
User avatar
pueraeternus
 
Posts: 690
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby dharmagoat » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:46 am

pueraeternus wrote:Actually, this is what really happened:

:applause: It is funny because it is true.
User avatar
dharmagoat
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:39 pm

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby Simon E. » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:16 am

pueraeternus wrote:
Norwegian wrote:Virgo,
The same day that the Mayan Calander ends [...]


Misinterpretation of the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar is the basis for a popular belief that a cataclysm will take place on December 21, 2012. December 21, 2012 is simply the day that the calendar will go to the next b'ak'tun, at Long Count 13.0.0.0.0. The date on which the calendar will go to the next piktun (a complete series of 20 b'ak'tuns), at Long Count 1.0.0.0.0.0, will be on October 13, 4772.

Sandra Noble, executive director of the Mesoamerican research organization Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc.(FAMSI), notes that "for the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle". She considers the portrayal of December 2012 as a doomsday or cosmic-shift event to be "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in."


The Mayan calendar most definitely does not end in 2012.


Actually, this is what really happened:
calendar bizarro.jpg

Even when it is not " cashing in " in the financial sense it is an opportunity for a small group of people ( lets not exaggerate their numbers ) to slip into denial mode about the nature of conventional reality with its highs and lows, its grit and silk, its wonder and pain.
NOTHING will be any different in 2013..any of us as individuals can of course walk under a bus.. but the the world will go on in constant change. With no unchanging entity, and with a degree of suffering.
When its clear that nothing has changed, the New Agers will for years tell us that it is a slow process..and that things have changed but only sensitive people like them realise it...
Its all bull. Back to the cushion.. :lol:
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Large random shooting in Colorado

Postby Sonny » Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:31 pm

dharmagoat wrote:
Huseng wrote:
dharmagoat wrote:We each do what we can to bring about positive trends within our own sphere of influence. No need to project into the future (unless, of course, this is a role we are appointed to).

Better to see what horrid mess samsara is and develop disgust for it.

Seriously? Cultivate aversion?



Hi,
It really is better to see what a horrid mess samsara is and develop disgust for it. Doing so is not cultivating aversion. Aversion is an exaggerated state of mind. It, just like attachment, exaggerates, distorts and solidifies.
Disgust for samsara arises from understanding samsara for what it is, it is not an emotional reaction, there is no exaggeration or distortion or solidifying involved, one just sees accurately - there is absolutely nothing nice about samsara.
User avatar
Sonny
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:29 pm

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby Simon E. » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:48 pm

" Disgust " is very definitely an emotional reaction. Its more or less synonymous with aversion.
The opposite of attraction is not aversion or disgust..its equanimity... Upeksha.
" Upeksha is the still point between attraction and aversion.."
Thrangu Rinpoche.
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby Sonny » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:29 pm

Simon E. wrote:" Disgust " is very definitely an emotional reaction. Its more or less synonymous with aversion.
The opposite of attraction is not aversion or disgust..its equanimity... Upeksha.
" Upeksha is the still point between attraction and aversion.."
Thrangu Rinpoche.


That is not the way I see it , or experience it. But of course, each to their own.
The disgust I am talking is not like aversion's disturbing emotion and attitude. It does not cause me to lose my peace of mind, nor does it incapacitate me or make me lose self control. This disgust is not an emotion that when it arises, causes me to lose my peace of mind, like aversion does. It does not incapacitate me so that I react negatively. Aversion is based on ignorance. This disgust comes from seeing things as they are, and thus gives rise to compassion and an armor like happy effort.
User avatar
Sonny
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:29 pm

Re: Large random shooting in Colorado

Postby Virgo » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:34 pm

Simon E. wrote:Frankly I think it is sad to see this kind of bullshit perpetrated on a Buddhist forum.

If you don't like astrology that is fine. It is not necessary for practice (as I find myself saying repeatedly in this thread).

It is, however, a part of practice for many of us. For example, in Tibetan Buddhism, we coordinate our practice around the moon phases (my three roots practice is), and we do special pujas on certain days, and so on. So again, if you choose not to use it is fine, it is not necessary and no one is asking you to. It has been part of "Buddhist practice" for thousands of years though (gaining popularity with the Mahayana).

Kevin
ओं मणिपद्मे हूं
http://www.ripple.org

Kevin
. . .
User avatar
Virgo
 
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Globe

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby Virgo » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:38 pm

Simon E. wrote:Even when it is not " cashing in " in the financial sense it is an opportunity for a small group of people ( lets not exaggerate their numbers ) to slip into denial mode about the nature of conventional reality with its highs and lows, its grit and silk, its wonder and pain.
NOTHING will be any different in 2013..any of us as individuals can of course walk under a bus.. but the the world will go on in constant change. With no unchanging entity, and with a degree of suffering.
When its clear that nothing has changed, the New Agers will for years tell us that it is a slow process..and that things have changed but only sensitive people like them realise it...
Its all bull. Back to the cushion.. :lol:

Things have already changed. I spoke about Dzogchen. 100 years ago you could only get Dzogchen teachings if you lived in Tibet or the like, followed a master for many years, were a monk, or a very good yogi, etc. Nowadays, anyone can receive Dzogchen teachings whether Tibetan, non-Tibetan, black, white, female, male, Turkish, Pakastani, monk, not-monk, rich, poor, etc. Moreover, the teachings have spread all over because of technology. As I said Aquarius rules the easy spread of information and transparency, things are no longer hidden where you have to search them out, they are at your fingertips, and the way these teachings are spreading is through technology (aquarius). So things have been changing slowly, yes, but they have been changing slowly for a long time, and will continue to.

All the best,

Kevin
Last edited by Virgo on Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ओं मणिपद्मे हूं
http://www.ripple.org

Kevin
. . .
User avatar
Virgo
 
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Globe

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby Simon E. » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:45 pm

Kevin if you want to spend your life in fantasy then that is your right.
There are many websites dedicated to all sorts of crackpot ideas.
I think its a genuine scandal that one dedicated to Dharma should be contaminated by them.
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby Virgo » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:56 pm

Simon E. wrote:Kevin if you want to spend your life in fantasy then that is your right.
There are many websites dedicated to all sorts of crackpot ideas.
I think its a genuine scandal that one dedicated to Dharma should be contaminated by them.

Frankly, i think you are the one that might be in a fantasy. Do I need to provide you with a list of the Five Primary Buddhist Sciences, and the Five Secondary Ones, which include Astrology in the list, Simon? Do I need to provide Mahayana Sutras and Tantras that use it and mention it?

This is a Buddhist board, and yes, I am talking about astrology. It's part of the Five Secondary Sciences. Thanks.

Kevin
ओं मणिपद्मे हूं
http://www.ripple.org

Kevin
. . .
User avatar
Virgo
 
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Globe

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:57 pm

:good:
User avatar
Lhug-Pa
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby Simon E. » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:08 pm

No you dont Kevin...because I do not intend spending another second of my remaining time discussing Mayan Calenders or the New Age..Neither of which have any connection at all with Buddhist or Vedic Astrology.

Good luck to you.

:namaste:
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby Virgo » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:30 pm

Simon E. wrote: or the New Age..Neither of which have any connection at all with Buddhist or Vedic Astrology.

Good luck to you.

:namaste:

The point is that Buddhist tantras accept tropical astrology which in essence is the same as Western astrology, though they take it to an even more esoteric level in some ways. A Tibetan Astrologer, I am sure, can tell you that the same influences will be current during the next 2000 year period as they have the same constellations with the same meanings, the same houses, etc. There really is no issue here except that you do not understand the prevelance of astrology in Mahayana (and especially tantric) Buddhism in general, nor do you realize that what is being used is essentially the same as Western astrology (that would be in the Indian astrology practiced in Tibet, they also practice Chinese influenced astrology which is very good).

Likewise, the Aquarian "New Age" comes directly out of astrology. Whatever connection there is to hippies, crystals, and so forth, is a separate entity altogether.

The Mayans are the best astronomers in history. Their calander is an absolute marvel. The accuracy of their calculations is amazing when compared to calculations done by modern people with advanced equipment. The fact that a major phase ends for them on the day of the winter solstice 12/21/12 is nothing to scoff at. It is an important time. If this stuff doesn't interest you, that is fine. You do not have to attack it.


Kevin
ओं मणिपद्मे हूं
http://www.ripple.org

Kevin
. . .
User avatar
Virgo
 
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Globe

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby Simon E. » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:41 pm

Sonny wrote:
Simon E. wrote:" Disgust " is very definitely an emotional reaction. Its more or less synonymous with aversion.
The opposite of attraction is not aversion or disgust..its equanimity... Upeksha.
" Upeksha is the still point between attraction and aversion.."
Thrangu Rinpoche.


That is not the way I see it , or experience it. But of course, each to their own.
The disgust I am talking is not like aversion's disturbing emotion and attitude. It does not cause me to lose my peace of mind, nor does it incapacitate me or make me lose self control. This disgust is not an emotion that when it arises, causes me to lose my peace of mind, like aversion does. It does not incapacitate me so that I react negatively. Aversion is based on ignorance. This disgust comes from seeing things as they are, and thus gives rise to compassion and an armor like happy effort.


Then I think you need find another word Sonny.
All of the accepted meanings of " disgust " imply a very strong emotional aversion.
There is a problem admittedly in that a lot of earlier translations of the Pali Canon used the word
" disgust " but few more recent ones do.
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby Sonny » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:05 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Sonny wrote:
Simon E. wrote:" Disgust " is very definitely an emotional reaction. Its more or less synonymous with aversion.
The opposite of attraction is not aversion or disgust..its equanimity... Upeksha.
" Upeksha is the still point between attraction and aversion.."
Thrangu Rinpoche.


That is not the way I see it , or experience it. But of course, each to their own.
The disgust I am talking is not like aversion's disturbing emotion and attitude. It does not cause me to lose my peace of mind, nor does it incapacitate me or make me lose self control. This disgust is not an emotion that when it arises, causes me to lose my peace of mind, like aversion does. It does not incapacitate me so that I react negatively. Aversion is based on ignorance. This disgust comes from seeing things as they are, and thus gives rise to compassion and an armor like happy effort.


Then I think you need find another word Sonny.
All of the accepted meanings of " disgust " imply a very strong emotional aversion.
There is a problem admittedly in that a lot of earlier translations of the Pali Canon used the word
" disgust " but few more recent ones do.


It works well enough for me, thanks.
I am in good company too it seems ;) because even Shantideva never had a problem using the word disgust:

"Being praised and such things cause me distraction;
They cause my disgust (with samsara) to disintegrate as well.
I become jealous of those with good qualities,
And that makes me demolish success."
Last edited by Sonny on Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sonny
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:29 pm

Re: Discussion on Aversion

Postby dharmagoat » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:06 pm

Sonny wrote:The disgust I am talking is not like aversion's disturbing emotion and attitude. It does not cause me to lose my peace of mind, nor does it incapacitate me or make me lose self control. This disgust is not an emotion that when it arises, causes me to lose my peace of mind, like aversion does. It does not incapacitate me so that I react negatively. Aversion is based on ignorance. This disgust comes from seeing things as they are, and thus gives rise to compassion and an armor like happy effort.

What you describe as "disgust", I would describe as "disenchantment".
User avatar
dharmagoat
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:39 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Open Dharma

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Johnny Dangerous, sozenithurts and 9 guests

>