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3 types of dukkha - Dhamma Wheel

3 types of dukkha

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Spiny O'Norman
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3 types of dukkha

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:56 am

Hello all, I hope you are well.

I've been revisiting dukkha again recently (!) and in particular the 3 types traditionally described:

a) dukkha-dukkha: ordinary suffering;
b) viparinama-dukkha: suffering due to change;
c) sankhara-dukkha: suffering due to formations;

I still don't get the distinction between (b) and (c) - any ideas?

I have an old Buddhist dictionary which says that these 3 types of dukkha relate to painful, pleasant and neutral feelings respectively - the first 2 make sense to me but not the third - have you come across this classification?

I'm also wondering whether there is a relationship between these 3 types of dukkha and:
(i) the usual formula for dukkha in the First Noble Truth, eg sankhara-dukkha relating to the 5 aggregates subject to clinging;
(ii) the 3 characteristics, eg viparinama-dukkha relating to the first characteristic ( anicca ).

I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Spiny

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ground
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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby ground » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:50 pm


santa100
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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby santa100 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:34 pm

A wonderful article by Bhikkhu Bodhi on the subject:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ay_43.html

rowyourboat
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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:40 pm

Hi Spiny,

Thank you for revisiting dukkha! Often Buddhists want to learn about the way out of dukkha, but not about dukkha itself. The Buddha said he taught only suffering and the cessation of suffering. I think it is understandable why people do not want to understand about dukkha- unpleasant as it is. But it is a crucial thing In my humble opinion. Without really getting to grips with dukkha it is nigh on impossible to remove the cause of dukkha, and hence find peace. So it is important to explore dukkha in all it's complexity.

Dukke dukkha refers to unpleasant feelings (physical pain, the PAIN of mental suffering)
Viparinama dukkha - literally the suffering that arises due to something we like changing or us loosing it (this is directly caused by attachment). Incidentally, those people who are attached strongly to phenomena and Self are going to suffer this type of dukkha more, when they do deep vipassana.
The dukkha of fabrications refer to not so much an emotional suffering but a wise understanding (ie more thinking/cognition than emotion) that the impermanent state of phenomena is just unsatisfactory. Hence the unsatisfactoriness of impermanent phenomena becomes a quality of that phenomena rather than our craving induced reaction to it- to say it in another way - even an arahanth would feel that what is impermanent is unsatisfactory (as the Buddha himself always repeated).

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

whynotme
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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby whynotme » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:01 pm

Thank you rowyourboat, great opinions
Please stop following me

rowyourboat
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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:06 pm

you are welcome whynotme.
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:29 am


dhammapal
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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby dhammapal » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:14 am







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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:17 am


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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:58 pm


santa100
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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby santa100 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:22 pm

An Arhant still has a body that's subjected to aging, sickness, and death, so he could still feel the physical pains as a results of these processes. But he won't "suffer". After all, he's mastered the Nonself - Anatta training, so who is there to suffer?

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daverupa
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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby daverupa » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:33 pm

It seems to me that experiencing the five clinging-aggregates is dukkha, while experiencing the five aggregates is not dukkha.

rowyourboat
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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:38 pm

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

rowyourboat
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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:44 pm

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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kirk5a
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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby kirk5a » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:23 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby daverupa » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:34 am


chownah
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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby chownah » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:51 am

In an attempt to ask a question to clarify the discussion:
Is it that there are five aggregates and most people cling to them and this is dukkha but arahants while "having" or "experiencing" or "attending" to these aggregates do not cling to them but rather just fully see the folly of doing so and as a result of their non-clinging to this it is not dukkha?

chownah

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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:22 am


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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby shoel » Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:04 am


rowyourboat
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Re: 3 types of dukkha

Postby rowyourboat » Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:58 pm

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha


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