How dare you change your mind!

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How dare you change your mind!

Postby Blue Garuda » Sun May 20, 2012 8:48 pm

It seems that if a person changes his mind it is perceived, only by some, as hypocritical.

OK, I'll be first 'do a Malcolm' and be honest about moving on:

I changed my mind when as a teen I encountered Theosophy.

I changed my mind when I encountered Celtic mysticism in Wales.

I changed my mind again when I encountered the Bardo Thodol .

I changed my mind when I spent time in India .

I changed my mind when I encountered Vajrayana (albeit within a dodgy organisation).

I changed my mind about Dharmapala practice.

I changed my mind about Dzogchen.

Is changing your mind a sign of personal development or a waste of time in blind alleys, I wonder?

I guess that I am not alone in encountering great joy and tolerance when entering a new group and great bitterness and disapproval when leaving one. Yet both are equal consequences of personal change. Compassion is surely about wanting others to be happy rather than seeing their change as a personal affront to one's master. I would say that those who feel such an affront may be exhibiting a lack of confidence in their own practice.

I would include, as a measure of the worth of an organisation, its reaction when someone leaves, or dares to question the norms and seek change. ;)

Anyone else moved on?

What did you encounter?
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Re: How dare you change your mind!

Postby Paul » Sun May 20, 2012 8:54 pm

Even arahats can have heart attacks, apparently.
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"Do not block your six senses; delight in them with joy and ease.
All that you take pleasure in will strengthen the awakened state.
With such a confidence, empowered by the regal state of natural mind,
The training now is simply this: lets your six senses be at ease and free." - Princess Parani
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Re: How dare you change your mind!

Postby mindyourmind » Sun May 20, 2012 8:59 pm

Big question, with the answer dependent on the specifics in every case, I suppose.

Generally I would say that the ability to change your mind, the readiness to continue to challenge and question your valued and cozy beliefs is a good thing, a sign of maturity, confidence and maybe even of intelligence. We all do it. I've done it, and I hope that I will continue to do so - with some things at least.
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Re: How dare you change your mind!

Postby Caz » Sun May 20, 2012 9:02 pm

I changed my mind, Im still in the process of doing it though. Seems to be going fairly well so far. :namaste:
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.
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Re: How dare you change your mind!

Postby Blue Garuda » Sun May 20, 2012 9:18 pm

Blue Garuda wrote:It seems that if a person changes his mind it is perceived, only by some, as hypocritical.

OK, I'll be first 'do a Malcolm' and be honest about moving on:

I changed my mind when as a teen I encountered Theosophy.

I changed my mind when I encountered Celtic mysticism in Wales.

I changed my mind again when I encountered the Bardo Thodol .

I changed my mind when I spent time in India .

I changed my mind when I encountered Vajrayana (albeit within a dodgy organisation).

I changed my mind about Dharmapala practice.

I changed my mind about Dzogchen.

Is changing your mind a sign of personal development or a waste of time in blind alleys, I wonder?

I guess that I am not alone in encountering great joy and tolerance when entering a new group and great bitterness and disapproval when leaving one. Yet both are equal consequences of personal change. Compassion is surely about wanting others to be happy rather than seeing their change as a personal affront to one's master. I would say that those who feel such an affront may be exhibiting a lack of confidence in their own practice.

I would include, as a measure of the worth of an organisation, its reaction when someone leaves, or dares to question the norms and seek change. ;)

Anyone else moved on?

What did you encounter?


I I I I I I I I I I I I - Did 'I' change my mind or was it changed without the 'I' intervening. Caz makes a good point, as 'mind' is always changing, but is there an 'I' making that change, or is the change happening to that 'I' or the mind due to causes and conditions?
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Re: How dare you change your mind!

Postby Anders » Sun May 20, 2012 10:02 pm

There is a proverb made famous here in Denmark by Danish prime minister Jens Otto Krag back in '66, when he was confronted by journalists on how quickly he changed his willingness to cooperate with another party to stay in power, having dismissed them as old communists not long before. What he said translates basically as: "You have a position till you take a new one."

Changing your mind has been legitimised by said saying in Danish culture ever since. :jumping:
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra
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Re: How dare you change your mind!

Postby Caz » Sun May 20, 2012 10:08 pm

Blue Garuda wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:It seems that if a person changes his mind it is perceived, only by some, as hypocritical.

OK, I'll be first 'do a Malcolm' and be honest about moving on:

I changed my mind when as a teen I encountered Theosophy.

I changed my mind when I encountered Celtic mysticism in Wales.

I changed my mind again when I encountered the Bardo Thodol .

I changed my mind when I spent time in India .

I changed my mind when I encountered Vajrayana (albeit within a dodgy organisation).

I changed my mind about Dharmapala practice.

I changed my mind about Dzogchen.

Is changing your mind a sign of personal development or a waste of time in blind alleys, I wonder?

I guess that I am not alone in encountering great joy and tolerance when entering a new group and great bitterness and disapproval when leaving one. Yet both are equal consequences of personal change. Compassion is surely about wanting others to be happy rather than seeing their change as a personal affront to one's master. I would say that those who feel such an affront may be exhibiting a lack of confidence in their own practice.

I would include, as a measure of the worth of an organisation, its reaction when someone leaves, or dares to question the norms and seek change. ;)

Anyone else moved on?

What did you encounter?


I I I I I I I I I I I I - Did 'I' change my mind or was it changed without the 'I' intervening. Caz makes a good point, as 'mind' is always changing, but is there an 'I' making that change, or is the change happening to that 'I' or the mind due to causes and conditions?


Someone is certainly changing the mind what would you note as progress ? :namaste:
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.
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Re: How dare you change your mind!

Postby greentara » Mon May 21, 2012 12:50 am

Yes, it's fine to move on if you feel the group is 'on the nose' or you find something unsettling going on.
Careful not to become a spiritual supermarket shopper and consumer because of wanting something, anything but something different to excite the mental palate.
Just food for thought.
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Re: How dare you change your mind!

Postby Jikan » Mon May 21, 2012 1:31 am

Let's make a distinction between changing your mind in the sense of learning something or growing out of bad patterns, and changing your mind in the sense of infidelity or disengaged wishy-washiness or disloyalty or lack of commitment. The former is laudable; the latter, not so much.

In the case of Blue Garuda's narrative above, it seems like a history of learning things. Sounds good to me.
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Re: How dare you change your mind!

Postby plwk » Mon May 21, 2012 1:31 am

I change my underwear everyday... is that bad? :tongue:
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Re: How dare you change your mind!

Postby Blue Garuda » Mon May 21, 2012 9:21 am

plwk wrote:I change my underwear everyday... is that bad? :tongue:


Not as long as you wash too! LOL :)

It seems like a long list, but it spans around 45 years from my early teens, and maybe longer if you include mercenary stints as a choirboy! LOL :)

I think I found something of value in all of my 'spiritual' experiences and it is very hard to say that suddenly I found the light and ditched all prior influences on the mind. I'm not sure you can do that anyway. Karma creates Vipaka.

On a few occasions I definitely moved away from something unwholesome, and on other occasions I definitely moved towards something I found attractive. Most of the changes which have been most beneficial were the result of causes and conditions coming together to drop an opportunity in my lap. However, for the most part, all the experiences were beneficial in terms of developing compassion, tackling the 3 poisons and especially in that immeasurable feeling of bliss and unity with all life.

I think the mind has things revealed to it and it is also able to be trained to stabilise and abide in those states which are revealed.

Of course this thread was prompted by Malcolm, who received some positive and some negative responses to his announcement, name change etc. I wonder to what extent some of the negative comments were made through fear by some that a weakness was exposed in their own path, created a feeling of insecurity, and that they felt affronted that what they currently practise has been set aside by someone else.

My list was full of 'I' rather than 'mind', relating the experiences in everyday language, but 'mindfulness' is really what it is all about. It's easy to become comfortable and chant a sadhana on autopilot, so sometimes it is good to take a break, try a different avenue, and return. Sometimes, however, going back is of no value at all and we should move on.

I also have sympathy with a person's expression of 'mind' in terms of 'Dharma' rather than 'isms'. When did I stop becoming a pagan celtic practitioner and when did I become a 'Buddhist'. 'I' may give myself a label but 'mind' is not bounded by such arbitrary divisions so in being mindful of changes I don't think we need to become attached to what defines a 'self' as if there is a static mind we can slap a sticker onto which says 'Buddhist'.

Apologies, rambling. LOL :)

What happens to you when you change a 'position'? Politicians have to persouade voters, but we all have friends and fellow practitioners who may be upset by changes.

Do you feel a need to justify it or are you able to ignore other people's views on your change?

If we justify it, do we do that for the benefit of others or to make ourselves feel more comfortable and secure in our decision?
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Re: How dare you change your mind!

Postby catmoon » Mon May 21, 2012 1:26 pm

plwk wrote:I change my underwear everyday... is that bad? :tongue:


Turning it inside out doesn't count you know.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
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Re: How dare you change your mind!

Postby alpha » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:41 pm

if you know your nature ,whatever comes is fine.
changing is down to hope and fear and this is related to a belief that you should be in a particular way.
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Re: How dare you change your mind!

Postby Ogyen » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:19 pm

what "changes" really, but a perspective? It's like noticing a rainbow, but instead of noticing its totality, you notice one fraction of a its spectrum, and you BELIEVE or suppose that rainbows are blue. Then you notice another, and say, OH! The rainbow is actually red, not really blue. I've changed my mind. Or maybe now you're so much wiser because you realize it's RED AND BLUE. Now I've REALLY changed my mind.

So my question would be, what ACTUALLY changes in this thing we call mind? And why do we find importance in others' own narrow views of the rainbow to qualify this change for us?

Just a thought I'd wonder about...

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Re: How dare you change your mind!

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:45 pm

I used to change my mind, now I just let others change it for me. It costs a little more but you win out on the time and effort front. ;)
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: How dare you change your mind!

Postby Ogyen » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:07 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:I used to change my mind, now I just let others change it for me. It costs a little more but you win out on the time and effort front. ;)


:rolling:
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"To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget." –Arundhati Roy
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