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Zen Vs Therevada - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Zen Vs Therevada

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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christopher:::
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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby christopher::: » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:12 pm

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby Paññāsikhara » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:26 am

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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby Paññāsikhara » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:29 am

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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby Paññāsikhara » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:30 am

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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby Paññāsikhara » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:32 am

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lojong1
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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby lojong1 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:17 am

There are some odd [Dogen?] quotes in 'Respiration and Emotion' by Yutaka Haruki:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=qyTFq5u ... en&f=false

"The followers of Hinayana use the counting of breath to control the breathing, but the pursuit of the way of the Buddha and Patriarchs is very different from that of Hinayana. Mahayana also has a method for regulating the breath: it is to know [when the breath is long] that this is a long breath, and to know [when it is short] that this is a short breath."

Maybe this screwup occurred between jap and eng.

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christopher:::
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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby christopher::: » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:21 am

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby jcsuperstar » Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:33 am

the counting doesnt come from buddha it comes from commentaries, theres a difference. and those commentaries arent mahayana so dogen isnt really saying anything too foolish
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby PeterB » Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:43 am

The counting of breath predates Shakyamuni Buddha . All " Buddhist " meditation techniques predate Shakyamuni Buddha.
What is unique about Buddhadhamma is not any meditation technique...its D.O.

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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby Paññāsikhara » Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:54 am

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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby Paññāsikhara » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:00 am

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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby PeterB » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:01 am

I disagree with your disagreement Ven Huifeng . there is clear reference to meditation on the breath including counting in the in and out breath, in pre Buddhists Upanishadic commentary and if you give me some time I will find them.
The salient point being that the practitioners of those techniques did not have the necessary framwork to lead them to the most subtle of the fruits of that practice.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:04 am


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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby Paññāsikhara » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:06 am

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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby PeterB » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:16 am

I will need time....I was referring strictly to the technique, to the practice of counting breaths which was part of a yogic process to quieten the mind...it was not part of the wider developed practices that included other factors that led to identifiably Jnanic states in the Buddhist sense. There is evidence that a more limited use of such techniques was well known among the kind of mendicants with whom the pre Enlightened Gautama spent time.

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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby Paññāsikhara » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:58 am

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legolas
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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby legolas » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:44 am


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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:04 am

No doubt Legolas. I was simply making the point that awareness of and counting of the breath in a much more simple form, is preBuddhist. It was not my intention to start a war.. :tongue:
Gary Snyder has an interesting take...he thinks that all forms of meditation were discovered by hunters sitting in clearings or by fishing holes and discovering states of consciousness by becoming absorbed in their pursuit. Later they were codified and developed by being adopted into belief systems.

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legolas
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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby legolas » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:52 am


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christopher:::
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Re: Zen Vs Therevada

Postby christopher::: » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:13 pm

Or watching the flames of a fire at night...

Image

I sometimes wonder if as cultures became more complex and roles more rigid (hunter, farmer, merchant, scholar, priest, king, etc) if most organized religions and formal paths didn't arise as a response to that, to the complexities of language, cultures and roles...

Its like we live within boxes within boxes within boxes, where the illusions of self and other become solidified.

:toilet:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009


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