How Does Rebirth Function?

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: How Does Rebirth Function?

Postby Thug4lyfe » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:34 am

I guess most homeboys have to go through this process.

Chuck sum of deez up ya homeboy!

http://www.blpusa.com/download/bies06.pdf

It's one thing to have blind faith and be a fundie, but it's another thing to get attached to doubt.
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Re: How Does Rebirth Function?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:06 pm

After that bizarre, albeit colorful, aside by takso I would like to go back to the OP
...because there is no longer discrimination between self and other
Let's takes Nostas example of milk and yoghurt. Yoghurt comes from milk, it is made from milk right? Does that mean that milk is yoghurt, or yoghurt is milk? No.

In the same way this mind stream arises from myriad causes and conditions, does that mean that the causes and conditions are the mind stream or vice versa? No, obviously. So when one recognises that all things arise from causes and conditions this leads to the realisation there is no discrimination between self and other (other here does not necessarily mean the other person, but all phenomena) ie that to exist each requires the presence of the other, BUT that does not mean that they are one and the same.

Am I making sense here? Image
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: How Does Rebirth Function?

Postby plwk » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:27 pm

“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
~ The Buddha ~

:anjali:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Now, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.'
When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them.
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Re: How Does Rebirth Function?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:18 pm

takso wrote:“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
~ The Buddha ~

:anjali:
Yes, we've been down this path 100,000,000 times and just like every other time we'll have to say that in the specific Sutta the Buddha was talking about non-Buddhist teachers and their doctrines and not about himself and his doctrines.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: How Does Rebirth Function?

Postby Jesse » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:33 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
In the same way this mind stream arises from myriad causes and conditions, does that mean that the causes and conditions are the mind stream or vice versa? No, obviously. So when one recognises that all things arise from causes and conditions this leads to the realisation there is no discrimination between self and other (other here does not necessarily mean the other person, but all phenomena) ie that to exist each requires the presence of the other, BUT that does not mean that they are one and the same.

Am I making sense here? Image
:namaste:



Again, Thanks everyone. I always appreciate your insights and help.

Gregk, thank you.. I think I am starting to understand, basically, at any given moment our awareness and idea of self, is a product of our environment(and many other factors), and our environment is the product of all that which supports it, and while this vast inter-dependent system which sustains everything, is not necessarily who we are, it is at the same time, very much responsible for who and what we are.

Am I getting closer?


Pascal said, "All history is one immortal man who continually learns."
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Re: How Does Rebirth Function?

Postby tomamundsen » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:17 pm

You might want to check out Peaceful Death, Joyful Rebirth. It talks a lot about how rebirth functions, along with preparing yourself to become enlightened during the intermediate state.

http://books.google.com/books/about/Pea ... s4QutGSIwC
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Re: How Does Rebirth Function?

Postby Nosta » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:09 pm

Is there any ebook version of that paper book?

Thanks
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Re: How Does Rebirth Function?

Postby Tenzin1 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:21 am

Ghost01, there's a good film, "The TIbetan Book of the Dead", produced by Yukari Hayashi, that illustrates the process to some extent. It's a good starting point. There's some discussion by HHDL, footage of funerary practices, and an animated voyage through the Bardo state. Available on Amazon from $15+.
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Re: How Does Rebirth Function?

Postby justsit » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:23 am

Tenzin1 wrote:Ghost01, there's a good film, "The TIbetan Book of the Dead", produced by Yukari Hayashi, that illustrates the process to some extent. It's a good starting point. There's some discussion by HHDL, footage of funerary practices, and an animated voyage through the Bardo state. Available on Amazon from $15+.


Good flick, also available on You Tube posted in 5 parts by TibetArchive.
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Re: How Does Rebirth Function?

Postby Sherlock » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:36 am

Mr. G wrote:
This was a good post by Namdrol:

    Causes and effects are not the same, nor are they different.

    The mind that takes rebirth is not as same as the previous mind nor is it different.

    This is the reason why it is possible for sentients beings to experience serial rebirth through the appropriation of an infinite series of new physical bodies over time, relatively speaking.

    By saying that there is no actual rebirth, one is committing oneself to a metaphysical position called ucchedavada i.e. annihilationism. Commiting oneself to the position that there is an actual self, person, or entity that is reborn is called śāśvatavāda, eternalism.

    But when one understands that one instant of mind is neither the same nor different than the next instant of mind; since they are not the same, one avoids śāśvatavāda; and since they are not different, one avoids ucchedavada — thus one can understand the truth of rebirth, karma and its result, and dependent origination in the manner in which the Buddha intended and leave off the metaphysical speculations that plague non-Buddhists about such issues. One can then also understand that since the mind has no beginning, it never arose; and since it never arose, it never ceases.

    N
Read More Here...


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Re: How Does Rebirth Function?

Postby Dechen Norbu » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:52 am

I believe Mr G placed the wrong link by accident, so you would be sent elsewhere and not the post he meant. Send him a PM and I'm sure he will fix it. :smile:
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Re: How Does Rebirth Function?

Postby Mr. G » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:05 pm

My mistake Sherlock, it's been corrected. Thanks for the heads up Dechen. :smile:

Sherlock wrote:
Mr. G wrote:
This was a good post by Namdrol:

    Causes and effects are not the same, nor are they different.

    The mind that takes rebirth is not as same as the previous mind nor is it different.

    This is the reason why it is possible for sentients beings to experience serial rebirth through the appropriation of an infinite series of new physical bodies over time, relatively speaking.

    By saying that there is no actual rebirth, one is committing oneself to a metaphysical position called ucchedavada i.e. annihilationism. Commiting oneself to the position that there is an actual self, person, or entity that is reborn is called śāśvatavāda, eternalism.

    But when one understands that one instant of mind is neither the same nor different than the next instant of mind; since they are not the same, one avoids śāśvatavāda; and since they are not different, one avoids ucchedavada — thus one can understand the truth of rebirth, karma and its result, and dependent origination in the manner in which the Buddha intended and leave off the metaphysical speculations that plague non-Buddhists about such issues. One can then also understand that since the mind has no beginning, it never arose; and since it never arose, it never ceases.

    N
Read More Here...


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