Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:03 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:40 pm
Posts: 454
I guess most homeboys have to go through this process.

Chuck sum of deez up ya homeboy!

http://www.blpusa.com/download/bies06.pdf

It's one thing to have blind faith and be a fundie, but it's another thing to get attached to doubt.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:06 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10290
Location: Greece
After that bizarre, albeit colorful, aside by takso I would like to go back to the OP
Quote:
...because there is no longer discrimination between self and other
Let's takes Nostas example of milk and yoghurt. Yoghurt comes from milk, it is made from milk right? Does that mean that milk is yoghurt, or yoghurt is milk? No.

In the same way this mind stream arises from myriad causes and conditions, does that mean that the causes and conditions are the mind stream or vice versa? No, obviously. So when one recognises that all things arise from causes and conditions this leads to the realisation there is no discrimination between self and other (other here does not necessarily mean the other person, but all phenomena) ie that to exist each requires the presence of the other, BUT that does not mean that they are one and the same.

Am I making sense here? Image
:namaste:

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 am
Posts: 2776
Quote:
“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
~ The Buddha ~

:anjali:

Quote:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Now, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.'
When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them.

_________________
TWTB BIES OCB DDM BWF


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:18 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10290
Location: Greece
takso wrote:
“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
~ The Buddha ~

:anjali:
Yes, we've been down this path 100,000,000 times and just like every other time we'll have to say that in the specific Sutta the Buddha was talking about non-Buddhist teachers and their doctrines and not about himself and his doctrines.
:namaste:

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 6:54 am
Posts: 825
Location: Virginia, USA
gregkavarnos wrote:
Quote:
In the same way this mind stream arises from myriad causes and conditions, does that mean that the causes and conditions are the mind stream or vice versa? No, obviously. So when one recognises that all things arise from causes and conditions this leads to the realisation there is no discrimination between self and other (other here does not necessarily mean the other person, but all phenomena) ie that to exist each requires the presence of the other, BUT that does not mean that they are one and the same.

Am I making sense here? Image
:namaste:



Again, Thanks everyone. I always appreciate your insights and help.

Gregk, thank you.. I think I am starting to understand, basically, at any given moment our awareness and idea of self, is a product of our environment(and many other factors), and our environment is the product of all that which supports it, and while this vast inter-dependent system which sustains everything, is not necessarily who we are, it is at the same time, very much responsible for who and what we are.

Am I getting closer?


Pascal said, "All history is one immortal man who continually learns."

_________________
"We know nothing at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. The real nature of things we shall never know." - Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
Posts: 545
Location: Los Angeles, CA
You might want to check out Peaceful Death, Joyful Rebirth. It talks a lot about how rebirth functions, along with preparing yourself to become enlightened during the intermediate state.

http://books.google.com/books/about/Pea ... s4QutGSIwC


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:28 pm
Posts: 698
Is there any ebook version of that paper book?

Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:36 am
Posts: 100
Ghost01, there's a good film, "The TIbetan Book of the Dead", produced by Yukari Hayashi, that illustrates the process to some extent. It's a good starting point. There's some discussion by HHDL, footage of funerary practices, and an animated voyage through the Bardo state. Available on Amazon from $15+.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:24 pm
Posts: 641
Location: Delaware
Tenzin1 wrote:
Ghost01, there's a good film, "The TIbetan Book of the Dead", produced by Yukari Hayashi, that illustrates the process to some extent. It's a good starting point. There's some discussion by HHDL, footage of funerary practices, and an animated voyage through the Bardo state. Available on Amazon from $15+.


Good flick, also available on You Tube posted in 5 parts by TibetArchive.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:14 pm
Posts: 854
Mr. G wrote:

This was a good post by Namdrol:

    Causes and effects are not the same, nor are they different.

    The mind that takes rebirth is not as same as the previous mind nor is it different.

    This is the reason why it is possible for sentients beings to experience serial rebirth through the appropriation of an infinite series of new physical bodies over time, relatively speaking.

    By saying that there is no actual rebirth, one is committing oneself to a metaphysical position called ucchedavada i.e. annihilationism. Commiting oneself to the position that there is an actual self, person, or entity that is reborn is called śāśvatavāda, eternalism.

    But when one understands that one instant of mind is neither the same nor different than the next instant of mind; since they are not the same, one avoids śāśvatavāda; and since they are not different, one avoids ucchedavada — thus one can understand the truth of rebirth, karma and its result, and dependent origination in the manner in which the Buddha intended and leave off the metaphysical speculations that plague non-Buddhists about such issues. One can then also understand that since the mind has no beginning, it never arose; and since it never arose, it never ceases.

    N
Read More Here...


I am not authorised to view this forum. Can I be authorised?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:50 pm
Posts: 2755
I believe Mr G placed the wrong link by accident, so you would be sent elsewhere and not the post he meant. Send him a PM and I'm sure he will fix it. :smile:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Spaceship Earth
My mistake Sherlock, it's been corrected. Thanks for the heads up Dechen. :smile:

Sherlock wrote:
Mr. G wrote:

This was a good post by Namdrol:

    Causes and effects are not the same, nor are they different.

    The mind that takes rebirth is not as same as the previous mind nor is it different.

    This is the reason why it is possible for sentients beings to experience serial rebirth through the appropriation of an infinite series of new physical bodies over time, relatively speaking.

    By saying that there is no actual rebirth, one is committing oneself to a metaphysical position called ucchedavada i.e. annihilationism. Commiting oneself to the position that there is an actual self, person, or entity that is reborn is called śāśvatavāda, eternalism.

    But when one understands that one instant of mind is neither the same nor different than the next instant of mind; since they are not the same, one avoids śāśvatavāda; and since they are not different, one avoids ucchedavada — thus one can understand the truth of rebirth, karma and its result, and dependent origination in the manner in which the Buddha intended and leave off the metaphysical speculations that plague non-Buddhists about such issues. One can then also understand that since the mind has no beginning, it never arose; and since it never arose, it never ceases.

    N
Read More Here...


I am not authorised to view this forum. Can I be authorised?

_________________
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: heart and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group