How practical is consort practice for the majority?

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Virgo » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:40 am

DarwidHalim wrote:Kriya tantra, such as avalokiteshvara tantra is more suitable for general public. This tantra is without consort and te conduct has to be extremely pure. No garlic and vegetarian.

We don't like purity. I'm not pure, so I don't want to be fake.

For example, I like garlic and sex. And so do alot of people, you know?

And for people like me, that is why HYT was taught.

Kevin
Last edited by Virgo on Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Virgo
 
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Globe

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby kirtu » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:53 am

Namdrol wrote:
justsit wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Wanking is only sexual misconduct for monks.


It's still craving and attachment for everyone, yes?


In fact, to do consort practice, you have to inflame you and your partner's desire as much as possible, use very erotic language, candles, nice food, wine, clothes, scents, being as free from physical inhibition as possible, etc., and you have to do so for an extended period of time, weeks and months.


Then it's perfect for Gay men. Except I'm pretty certain that aspect isn't covered.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
kirtu
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4102
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby DarwidHalim » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:54 am

Virgo wrote:We don't like purity. I'm not pure, so I don't want to be fake.
Kevin


:rolling:

May be I use a wrong word. I mean kriya tantra practitioner have to be clean.

Kriya tantra is also called Action tantra. Visualization of Avalokitesvhara and his shadana, belong to this group.

Have you ever read this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Deity-Yoga-Action ... 89&sr=8-10

Inside that book, Dalai Lama made a story about 1 Indian yogi who practice Avalokiteshvara shadana. He did it correctly, no mistakes. However, he didn't have any realizations. So, he asked his teacher and he found out that he didn't bath.

After he cleaned his body, and practice again, he got all the realizations.

In the past, there are certain procedure just to take bath in Kriya Tantra (Action Tantra). Very troublesome actually.

Now, it is very simple. Thanks to the modern soap. Clean and effective.

The food that we eat is also an important factors in this Kriya tantra. Clean in and out.
Last edited by DarwidHalim on Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
User avatar
DarwidHalim
 
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:04 pm

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby kirtu » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:55 am

Namdrol wrote:
Astus wrote:What do you make of the similar magic techniques described in HYT like the Cakrasamvara Tantra? It becomes symbolic suddenly?


Oh, who really knows. The way these tantras are interpreted however is that they are all symbols.


All symbolic? Methinks this is a bit of an exaggeration.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
kirtu
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4102
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Virgo » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:57 am

DarwidHalim wrote:The food that we eat is also an important factors in this Kriya tantra. Clean in and out.

I like being clean (nails cut, freshly bathed, etc). But like I said, I like some garlic (and I like making love to women).

Kevin
Last edited by Virgo on Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Virgo
 
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Globe

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:57 am

kirtu wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Astus wrote:What do you make of the similar magic techniques described in HYT like the Cakrasamvara Tantra? It becomes symbolic suddenly?


Oh, who really knows. The way these tantras are interpreted however is that they are all symbols.


All symbolic? Methinks this is a bit of an exaggeration.

Kirt



In the case of Cakrasamvara, Hevajra and so on, not at all.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10192
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby kirtu » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:59 am

Mr. G wrote:
Namdrol wrote:For example, in Lamdre, there is union yoga both below and above the path of seeing.


Interesting....seems like a lot of awesome material in Lamdre...I knew I should have went last year to Walden!


:tantrum: :crying:

Note to self: ... just get there.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
kirtu
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4102
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Virgo » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:05 am

DarwidHalim wrote:Have you ever read this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Deity-Yoga-Action ... 89&sr=8-10

I've not read it.

Kevin
User avatar
Virgo
 
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Globe

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Virgo » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:06 am

Pure and impure really these are false notions. I learned this from my Teachers.

Kevin
User avatar
Virgo
 
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Globe

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby DarwidHalim » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:30 am

Virgo wrote:I like being clean (nails cut, freshly bathed, etc). But like I said, I like some garlic (and I like making love to women).


Oh ok.

I don't know whether tantric path is then suitable or not for your specific case. Because instead of using the desire to see the essenceless of desire, we may instead put more seed of desire, which will simply manifest stronger and stronger in the future.

Tantric is double edge sword.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
User avatar
DarwidHalim
 
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:04 pm

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Virgo » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:32 am

DarwidHalim wrote:
Virgo wrote:
Tantric is double edge sword.

lol

Not according to the tantras that I do.

Kevin
User avatar
Virgo
 
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Globe

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:33 am

Namdrol wrote:In fact, to do consort practice, you have to inflame you and your partner's desire as much as possible, use very erotic language, candles, nice food, wine, clothes, scents, being as free from physical inhibition as possible, etc., and you have to do so for an extended period of time, weeks and months.

People who claim that it is some dry yogic experience free of desire obviously have never actually received actual detailed instruction on it, or done the practice.


Karmamudra practice is at times combined with a Pancatattva-style Ganachakra or Ganapuja. Although didn't many of the Mahasiddhas do consort practice in places like caves and such, and therefore did not always have many of these kinds of ornaments for the practice? Yet considering that they were Siddhas and Mahasiddhas, they probably could have just manifested them out of thin air. :D
User avatar
Lhug-Pa
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:26 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:
Namdrol wrote:In fact, to do consort practice, you have to inflame you and your partner's desire as much as possible, use very erotic language, candles, nice food, wine, clothes, scents, being as free from physical inhibition as possible, etc., and you have to do so for an extended period of time, weeks and months.

People who claim that it is some dry yogic experience free of desire obviously have never actually received actual detailed instruction on it, or done the practice.


Karmamudra practice is at times combined with a Pancatattva-style Ganachakra or Ganapuja. Although didn't many of the Mahasiddhas do consort practice in places like caves and such, and therefore did not always have many of these kinds of ornaments for the practice? Yet considering that they were Siddhas and Mahasiddhas, they probably could have just manifested them out of thin air. :D



Vajrayāna in India was an urban phenomena.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10192
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Caz » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:37 pm

Tantric wanking ? :rolling:
Isnt this why its not ment to be disscussed openly to prevent fits of giggles ? :jumping:
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.
Caz
 
Posts: 539
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:49 am

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:26 pm

Caz wrote:Tantric wanking ? :rolling:
Isnt this why its not ment to be disscussed openly to prevent fits of giggles ? :jumping:



It is a skillful means meant to make Buddhism appealing to teen football hooligans.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10192
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby justsit » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:37 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Caz wrote:Tantric wanking ? :rolling:
Isnt this why its not ment to be disscussed openly to prevent fits of giggles ? :jumping:



It is a skillful means meant to make Buddhism appealing to teen football hooligans.


Also a great name for a band out of Liverpool. :thumbsup:

:focus:

How does "tantric wanking" differ from your basic garden-variety wanking??
User avatar
justsit
 
Posts: 641
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:24 pm
Location: Delaware

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:53 pm

I'm clueless there ^^^. It couldn't be referring to Jnanamudra or Vajroli Mudra, so maybe Namdrol was only takin' the mickey. :shrug:


Namdrol wrote:Vajrayāna in India was an urban phenomena.


Sure. But in reading Sky Dancer for example, I remember the said 'esoteric conduct' (Karmamudra) having taken place in more rugged settings.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Lhug-Pa
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Zenshin 善心 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:00 pm

i for one, am struggling in my practice - perhaps we could devote a subforum to tantric wanking with tips and advice from more experienced practitioners?
All beings since their first aspiration till the attainment of Buddhahood are sheltered under the guardianship of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas who, responding to the requirements of the occasion, transform themselves and assume the actual forms of personality.

Thus for the sake of all beings Buddhas and Bodhisattvas become sometimes their parents, sometimes their wives and children, sometimes their kinsmen, sometimes their servants, sometimes their friends, sometimes their enemies, sometimes reveal themselves as devas or in some other forms.


- Ashvaghosa, The Awakening of Faith

oroka
User avatar
Zenshin 善心
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:29 pm
Location: Fukuoka

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:07 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:I'm clueless there ^^^. It couldn't be referring to Jnanamudra or Vajroli Mudra, so maybe Namdrol took for a bunch of wankers and was only takin' the mickey. :shrug:


Namdrol wrote:Vajrayāna in India was an urban phenomena.


Sure. But in reading Sky Dancer for example, I remember the said 'esoteric conduct' (Karmamudra) having taken place in more rugged settings.



Yes, in Tibet. Tibetans were very prudish about sexuality.

But not in India. For example, when Virupa was practicing conduct, he did so in his room in the monastery. This is why he got kicked out actually.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10192
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby kirtu » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:23 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Lhug-Pa wrote:I'm clueless there ^^^. It couldn't be referring to Jnanamudra or Vajroli Mudra, so maybe Namdrol took for a bunch of wankers and was only takin' the mickey. :shrug:


Namdrol wrote:Vajrayāna in India was an urban phenomena.


Sure. But in reading Sky Dancer for example, I remember the said 'esoteric conduct' (Karmamudra) having taken place in more rugged settings.



Yes, in Tibet. Tibetans were very prudish about sexuality.

But not in India. For example, when Virupa was practicing conduct, he did so in his room in the monastery. This is why he got kicked out actually.

N


But that conduct wasn't even real. It was just a vision seen by some people. Others saw other things (lamps, etc.).

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
kirtu
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4102
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

PreviousNext

Return to Open Dharma

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alfredo, gad rgyangs, Hickersonia, hop.pala, Indrajala, kirtu, LolCat, moron, udawa and 32 guests

>