How practical is consort practice for the majority?

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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Clarence » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:20 pm

Namdrol wrote:In fact, to do consort practice, you have to inflame you and your partner's desire as much as possible, use very erotic language, candles, nice food, wine, clothes, scents, being as free from physical inhibition as possible, etc., and you have to do so for an extended period of time, weeks and months.

People who claim that it is some dry yogic experience free of desire obviously have never actually received actual detailed instruction on it, or done the practice.

N


And here we thought you were all alone in that cabin in the woods. :smile:
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:24 pm

'Tantric wanking' ?

Are you referring to Vajroli Mudra?

Vajroli Mudra, though it might appear to be like "wanking", is actually quite the opposite of wanking.

Edit: Of course there is Jnanamudra too, and there are also many variations of Vajrolimudra out there.
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby wayland » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:26 pm

Namdrol wrote:in lower tantra there are many rites for attracting and seducing human and non-human woman,

Hi Namdrol,
In the absence of a flesh & blood consort, is a Jñāna Mudrā - a maiden created through the power of one's visualization - a viable alternative? I wondered if the non-human woman you mention above is similar?
:namaste:
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:33 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:'Tantric wanking' ?

Are you referring to Vajroli Mudra?

Vajroli Mudra, though it might appear to be like "wanking", is actually quite the opposite of wanking.

Edit: Of course there is also Jnanamudra; and there are also many variations of Vajrolimudra out there.


Nope. That is different. Vajroli is training in drawing fluids into the urethra.
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:36 pm

wayland wrote:
Namdrol wrote:in lower tantra there are many rites for attracting and seducing human and non-human woman,

Hi Namdrol,
In the absence of a flesh & blood consort, is a Jñāna Mudrā - a maiden created through the power of one's visualization - a viable alternative? I wondered if the non-human woman you mention above is similar?
:namaste:



Yes, viable.

No, in kriya tantra such rites are just for having control over woman. Non-human in this case means yakshinis and so on.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Astus » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:36 pm

Namdrol wrote:One of the funny things that people say is that lower tantra is more suitable for general public. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Actually, in lower tantra there are many rites for attracting and seducing human and non-human woman, killing enemies, and so on.

The model for the four activities, pacifying, enrichment, power, and destructive rites, etc., come directly from kriya tantra. Kriya tantra is practiced for these siddhis specifically.


What do you make of the similar magic techniques described in HYT like the Cakrasamvara Tantra? It becomes symbolic suddenly?
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Astus wrote:
Namdrol wrote:One of the funny things that people say is that lower tantra is more suitable for general public. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Actually, in lower tantra there are many rites for attracting and seducing human and non-human woman, killing enemies, and so on.

The model for the four activities, pacifying, enrichment, power, and destructive rites, etc., come directly from kriya tantra. Kriya tantra is practiced for these siddhis specifically.


What do you make of the similar magic techniques described in HYT like the Cakrasamvara Tantra? It becomes symbolic suddenly?


Oh, who really knows. The way these tantras are interpreted however is that they are all symbols.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:39 pm

Like I've said, many variations of Vajroli Mudra out there; with the main point being to have the sexual energy flow—rather than downward and outward—inward and upward.

Although I am aware that some Yogins practice the variation of Vajroli that you mentioned here.
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Tilopa » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:41 pm

Mr. G wrote:I don't think it is practical for the majority. There's probably a handful of people who know how to properly practice karmamudra. It can easily turn into some ego-trip where people think they are progressing on the path when in fact they are increasing afflictions.

Correct. Unless you can cause the winds to flow in the central channel consort practice will only increase bondage to samsara. It's a practice for yogis with a considerable degree of accomplishment.
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:49 pm

Tilopa wrote:
Mr. G wrote:I don't think it is practical for the majority. There's probably a handful of people who know how to properly practice karmamudra. It can easily turn into some ego-trip where people think they are progressing on the path when in fact they are increasing afflictions.

Correct. Unless you can cause the winds to flow in the central channel consort practice will only increase bondage to samsara. It's a practice for yogis with a considerable degree of accomplishment.



Certainly that is how it is explained but certain people in Tibetan Buddhism.

Others explain it differntly i.e. it is method for inducing rapid accomplishment. For example, in Lamdre, there is union yoga both below and above the path of seeing.

This relates somewhat to what David Chapman was talking about in the Aro thread i.e. that "tantra" or the erotic elements in Vajrayāna have been somewhat suppressed. Probably a necessary consequence of Vajrayāna in monasteries. But in reality, tantric practice in India was more liberal. There is also cultural issues -- Indians have a more eroticized culture than Tibet.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Tilopa » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:59 pm

Namdrol wrote:This relates somewhat to what David Chapman was talking about in the Aro thread i.e. that "tantra" or the erotic elements in Vajrayāna have been somewhat suppressed. Probably a necessary consequence of Vajrayāna in monasteries. But in reality, tantric practice in India was more liberal. There is also cultural issues -- Indians have a more eroticized culture than Tibet.

Very interesting comment, thank you.
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Mr. G » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:37 pm

Namdrol wrote:For example, in Lamdre, there is union yoga both below and above the path of seeing.


Interesting....seems like a lot of awesome material in Lamdre...I knew I should have went last year to Walden!
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    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby AdmiralJim » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:51 pm

Is it only the heterosexuals who get to indulge in tantric fun? ;)
I don't know where we are going but it will be nice when we get there
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby wayland » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:56 pm

Namdrol wrote:
wayland wrote:
Namdrol wrote:in lower tantra there are many rites for attracting and seducing human and non-human woman,

Hi Namdrol,
In the absence of a flesh & blood consort, is a Jñāna Mudrā - a maiden created through the power of one's visualization - a viable alternative? I wondered if the non-human woman you mention above is similar?
:namaste:



Yes, viable.

No, in kriya tantra such rites are just for having control over woman. Non-human in this case means yakshinis and so on.

Hi Namdrol,
I'm interested whether you know if there are reports of how Jñāna Mudrā appears to tantrics. Is it merely a case of imagination and visualization, or does it also involve manifestation?
Are the yakshinis you mention considered unsuitable for this purpose?

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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:39 am

AdmiralJim wrote:Is it only the heterosexuals who get to indulge in tantric fun? ;)


gad rgyangs wrote:Image

The central channel in a male ends at the tip of the penis, in a women it ends at the cervix. In heterosexual sex, the ends are brought in close proximity or contact. two men or two women are going to have a hard time with this. i believe it goes way beyond just this though, in terms of winds and drops, mirroring of side channels etc.


:idea:
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Konchog1 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:55 am

AdmiralJim wrote:Is it only the heterosexuals who get to indulge in tantric fun? ;)

I read in book about Bon Dream Yoga that the channels in men and women are reversed. So yes.

The book was Bon, but it's probably the same.

Namdrol wrote:in lower tantra there are many rites for attracting and seducing human and non-human woman,

I've interested in hearing more about seducing non-human women. How does that even work? Wearing Smart casual to the charnel grounds for Puja? :tongue:
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-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:03 am

wayland wrote:Is it merely a case of imagination and visualization?


Jñ̄ānamudra is a visualized consort.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Virgo » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:27 am

Konchog1 wrote:
Namdrol wrote:in lower tantra there are many rites for attracting and seducing human and non-human woman,

I've interested in hearing more about seducing non-human women. How does that even work? Wearing Smart casual to the charnel grounds for Puja? :tongue:

You probably don't want to get into that, but I don't know a whole lot about it.

Besides, there are more than enough human females to go around.. (though I don't know how many are suitable as tantric consorts)

Kevin
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby AdmiralJim » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:30 am

does this mean that homosexuals cannot use sexual tantric practices and if so does limit them in anyway when it comes to realisation?
I don't know where we are going but it will be nice when we get there
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Konchog1 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:32 am

AdmiralJim wrote:does this mean that homosexuals cannot use sexual tantric practices and if so does limit them in anyway when it comes to realisation?
Yes and no.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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