two cruft killers

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two cruft killers

Postby maybay » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:29 pm

One line of thought goes: follow a tradition, pass on only what is handed to you, none of your own ideas. Be as faithful to the tradition as you can. If there is something you have an alternative opinion on rather say nothing. There is licence to speak about the abstract ideas of others' minds. You can say what you don't understand as long as it has precedence in your tradition.
"So and so says such and such." Act kind, abundant, authentic and committed.

Another could be: follow only what you experience for yourself. Don't give people books you haven't read, don't even place them with books you have. Don't send people hyperlinks you haven't explored, don't express opinions on subjects you aren't familiar with from first-hand experience - even if you have great faith in the source of those opinions - even if you site your sources. Who pays attention to sources anyway? For most, what we remember, if anything, is that it came from you. Don't give directions to places you haven't been, instead, if you must, recommend a map-book you've personally used. Don't speak ideas to people unfamiliar with them. Don't say what you don't understand.
"I say such." Be disciplined, reserved, genuine and pure.
People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
- Machig Labdron
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Re: two cruft killers

Postby conebeckham » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:11 pm

What's a "cruft?"
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Re: two cruft killers

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:53 pm

I was going to ask the same thing.
My second question was going to be: "What's your point?"
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: two cruft killers

Postby MrDistracted » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:59 pm

Urban dictionary is always a friend.

1) Fluff found under a bed

2) An amalgamation; Crap + Stuff + Sh#t = Cruft

3)Unimportant or trivial writings that take up space on servers and consume bandwith, as in a blog.
"My friends, to help fulfill my lifetime endeavor to add to the cruft of the World Wide Web, I hereby announce my new blog"

:namaste:
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Re: two cruft killers

Postby maybay » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:52 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:I was going to ask the same thing.
My second question was going to be: "What's your point?"

I was just reading about the end of the British Empire. Jeremy Paxman says such an empire couldn't survive in age of mass media where every action is exposed to an public opinion. After all the effort and the whole enterprise shrivelled up and looking back questioning what it was all for.

Now millions of people broadcast their ideas to millions of other people. We don't lack efficiency or motive to do this, but what meaning? Is every action simply up to how I feel at the time, tweet and retweeting mechanically, endlessly - or is there some vision. Its curious to watch a forum thread for example, as it starts off all nice and neat question / statement and then grows into grotesque monster. Little bit here, little bit there. I don't know who you're talking to, over and over. Somehow we become convinced that using word like 'Dharma' and 'Wisdom' we've elevated ourselves.

My 5 cents into the wishing well. :crazy:
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Re: two cruft killers

Postby Dechen Norbu » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:08 pm

Better to avoid generalizations. Some people are convinced of that while others aren't, I guess.
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Re: two cruft killers

Postby KeithBC » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:15 am

maybay wrote:One line of thought goes: follow a tradition, pass on only what is handed to you, none of your own ideas.

Another could be: follow only what you experience for yourself.

Both are extremes.

Passing on traditions is a good thing, something I generally recommend. However, omiting one's own ideas stifles innovation and creativity.

Sticking strictly to what one has experienced oneself is frequently used as a manipulation tactic - a power trip - in forum discussions. It has a fake aura of "authenticity" to it, but it is a rejection of the concept of instruction. And it is really annoying. :tantrum:

As in so many things, a middle path is preferable. Be open to instruction from others, especially if the instruction comes from a venerable tradition, and especially if it comes from a wise and innovative thinker.

Om mani padme hum
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Re: two cruft killers

Postby maybay » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:21 pm

Since authentic traditions grow in time, where, or at least when did the creativity come in? And how could authentic traditions be authentic if they are having new ideas introduced over time? How is this distinguishable from perversion in other words?
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Re: two cruft killers

Postby maybay » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:25 pm

KeithBC wrote:Sticking strictly to what one has experienced oneself is frequently used as a manipulation tactic - a power trip - in forum discussions. It has a fake aura of "authenticity" to it, but it is a rejection of the concept of instruction.

Sounds perfectly honest to me. What is 'the concept of instruction'?
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Re: two cruft killers

Postby Dechen Norbu » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:58 pm

That you can know things that you didn't experience first hand because you were instructed about it.
Otherwise we would be reinventing the wheel over and over again.
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Re: two cruft killers

Postby maybay » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:48 pm

What direct experience without instruction can be called invention?
People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
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Re: two cruft killers

Postby Dechen Norbu » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:01 pm

Are you found of wasting other people's time with useless questions? :|
Your primacy of sticking strictly to what one has experienced oneself is a flawed idea.
Anyway, are you trying to make some point or what?
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Re: two cruft killers

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:11 pm

maybay wrote:What direct experience without instruction can be called invention?
It's a little difficult to have direct experience without instruction. I guess the answer to your question would be the full enlightenment of a Buddha. A Pratyekabuddha would have direct experience without instruction but not invention (since they do not teach). Seeing we are in an age where a Buddha has taught and the teachings are still available, then the next time something, like what you asking, will happen will be with Maitreya Buddha.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: two cruft killers

Postby maybay » Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:57 am

Well we wouldn't be here without Edison I suppose. Not like this anyway.
But I don't think they're useless questions. It's not like I've got a gun to your head :rolleye:
People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
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Re: two cruft killers

Postby Dechen Norbu » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:25 pm

The point being... :shrug:
You made two initial statements. Are they merely informative or do you plan to discuss them?
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