Intelligent design

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Intelligent design

Postby Epistemes » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:13 am

If everything is dependently originated, then what about intelligent design? Science has documented that if certain conditions on Earth had been variable by .00000000000000000000000001%, life on Earth wouldn't have been possible.
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby LastLegend » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:47 am

Epistemes wrote:If everything is dependently originated, then what about intelligent design? Science has documented that if certain conditions on Earth had been variable by .00000000000000000000000001%, life on Earth wouldn't have been possible.


Who can design the mind?
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby Virgo » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:31 am

Epistemes wrote:what about intelligent design?

Ask this child how intelligent it is:

Image

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Re: Intelligent design

Postby edearl » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:46 am

I wouldn't start this conversation, but you asked for people's opinions.

I have tried to view the universe as it is, rather than as it seems or as someone tells me...even before I had heard of Buddhism. This practice led me to being agnostic. Moreover, nothing I have ever observed led me to believe that a god or gods affect my life in any way. Modern science presents the most realistic view of things that is possible, for example the Earth is round and orbits the Sun.

Nothing in my experience indicates any intelligence controls or created the Universe. Intelligent design is a Christian idea to argue that the Christian God created man and all living things, instead of evolution. As an agnostic, I admit there may be a god or gods, without any particular religion in mind, but rather creating and ruling the entire Universe for everyone's benefit (or not). Furthermore, if a god or gods exist, they used evolution to to create and evolve life.

AFAIK evolution has not been proven by science, yet. Nonetheless, there are many many examples that indicate evolution is occurring, and most scientists believe it is an essential part of life, including Francis Collins. Collins is the physician-geneticist who led the Human Genome Project for the National Institutes of Health. He is an evangelical Christian who shares my belief in evolution.

See: http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/opin ... 659d.html/
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby kirtu » Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:24 am

Epistemes wrote:If everything is dependently originated, then what about intelligent design? Science has documented that if certain conditions on Earth had been variable by .00000000000000000000000001%, life on Earth wouldn't have been possible.


From a scientific POV it means that the universe is a gigantic life machine and that our solar system evolved life in the context of the conditions in our solar system. We will likely find life in numerous other places in the solar system as well, esp. on several of Saturn's moons. On Earth numerous intelligent animals evolved although only one with an advanced technological capability.

Had conditions been different than life would likely have still evolved. But it may not have become technologically adaptive (this is the reason that we aren't dinosaurs). Fermi's Paradox plays a role here, esp. since the universe is conducive to life.

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Re: Intelligent design

Postby catmoon » Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:49 am

Epistemes wrote:If everything is dependently originated, then what about intelligent design? Science has documented that if certain conditions on Earth had been variable by .00000000000000000000000001%, life on Earth wouldn't have been possible.


I would have to say that from any Buddhist POV I am aware of, intelligent design is complete non-starter due to the absence of a Designer.
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby Caz » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:41 am

I would question the Intelligence of something that desgined Samsara. But I dont think that will ever happen. :thumbsup:
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby Fa Dao » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:58 am

ID is nothing more than christianity wrapped up in pseudoscience so that it can be proselytized in the public school system. True science is about having a hypothesis and then proceeding to test and retest that hypothesis in order to see if it is true or not. It is simply not possible to apply this process to ID. There is nothing wrong with teaching religion in schools...teaching it AS religion though and not trying to pass off religious beliefs as science.
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby Astus » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:34 am

"Scientists have calculated that the chance of anything so patently absurd actually existing are millions to one. But magicians have calculated that million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten."
(Terry Pratchett: Mort, p. 1)
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby muni » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:05 am

Many zeros. "In Buddhism" intelligence easely sells Rolex - Lolex qualities for authentic simplicity.
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby Tilopa » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:28 am

Epistemes wrote:Science has documented that if certain conditions on Earth had been variable by .00000000000000000000000001%, life on Earth wouldn't have been possible.

That just proves dependent arising doesn't it?
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby catmoon » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:12 am

Tilopa wrote:That just proves dependent arising doesn't it?


It does? Dependent arisings can be probable or improbable. I don't think anything is proven here. Not yet, anyhow. By all means elucidate. :popcorn:
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby Sherab » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:56 am

Epistemes wrote:If everything is dependently originated, then what about intelligent design? Science has documented that if certain conditions on Earth had been variable by .00000000000000000000000001%, life on Earth wouldn't have been possible.

Could be the result of one successful evolution/outcome of countless unsuccessful "evolution" or selection from infinite possible outcomes. Nothing awesome about it.
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby edearl » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:42 am

Sherab wrote:
Epistemes wrote:If everything is dependently originated, then what about intelligent design? Science has documented that if certain conditions on Earth had been variable by .00000000000000000000000001%, life on Earth wouldn't have been possible.

Could be the result of one successful evolution/outcome of countless unsuccessful "evolution" or selection from infinite possible outcomes. Nothing awesome about it.


One successful evolution/outcome is unlikely to be awesome.

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Re: Intelligent design

Postby Jikan » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:03 pm

Epistemes wrote:If everything is dependently originated, then what about intelligent design? Science has documented that if certain conditions on Earth had been variable by .00000000000000000000000001%, life on Earth wouldn't have been possible.


Source please. Which scientists are you alluding to?
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby Epistemes » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:55 pm

Jikan wrote:
Epistemes wrote:If everything is dependently originated, then what about intelligent design? Science has documented that if certain conditions on Earth had been variable by .00000000000000000000000001%, life on Earth wouldn't have been possible.


Source please. Which scientists are you alluding to?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_Universe
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby Epistemes » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:14 pm

kirtu wrote:Had conditions been different than life would likely have still evolved. But it may not have become technologically adaptive (this is the reason that we aren't dinosaurs).


In which case, the Six Realms of Existence would have been conceived as Volcano Hell, Hungry Herbivores, Small Mammals, Dinosaurs, Demi-Dinosaurs, and T. Rex.

And all Dinosaurs would travel to Nepal to seek refuge in the Great Buddha Dino

if there was a Six Realms of Existence of a Great Buddha Dino at all.

:rolling:
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:17 pm

Are you talking about the Anthropic Principle?
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby Karma Yeshe » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:17 pm

Here is a good reply...

http://youtu.be/YGKRurORkCA
What Is...What Was...What Could be...What must never Be.
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Something Old...Something New...Something Borrowed...Something Blue.
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Re: Intelligent design

Postby KeithBC » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:52 pm

Epistemes wrote:If everything is dependently originated, then what about intelligent design? Science has documented that if certain conditions on Earth had been variable by .00000000000000000000000001%, life on Earth wouldn't have been possible.

Interesting juxtaposition of non-sequiturs!

Intelligent design is an intentionally deceptive political attempt to circumvent provisions of the US Constitution. It is dishonest on every level, not the least of which is that it is unable to explain the alleged designer. It belongs in the same dustbin as the Nigerian letter scam, for the same reason: it is fraudulent.

While one could quibble about the number of zeroes in your carefully calculated number, so what? There is no meaningful conclusion you can draw from that. There is a 0.0278 chance that a pair of dice will roll snake-eyes on the first roll. Does that mean that if I roll snake eyes, there was divine or diabolical intervention? Of course not. It means nothing at all.

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