Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:See N-la this is where my concern is. I mean an ant on an anthill is "part of the matrix". So I mean what's to stop a human queen bee with all her soldier ants making all of us "part of the matrix" too? This is where I still think that the Western idea of property rights is of some use because it is a safeguard against precisely that kind of concern.
I totally accept your concern about large scale rapacious capitalism. But where do we meet in the middle here? You yourself said that we could still have businesses and factories "where permissible" - again that scary word. So how do we meet in the middle here? At what point does someone trading a basket for someone else's spear become rapacious upon the environment? In other words at what point does trade that is "free" become harmful?
When I say I am an anarcho "capitalist" what I really mean is that collectivism scares me more than individualism. And being subsumed back into the "matrix that spawned us" sounds to me an awful lot like a type of collectivism that is going to have to be enforced via coercion.
I mean when we have collapsed the cave of hope and fear are we still deep ecologists? Isn't it just another reference point?
From my perspective, your concerns are more appropriately voiced with reference to social ecology, which for all of its pretense to be an ecological theory, is still basically marxist, still basically a collectivism, now rebranded as communalism. Trust me, I am no more interested in living on a commune, or a kibbutz, than you are.
Permissible in this context means that when the necessary cultural transformation occurs that will allow for a deep green society to unfold, people will understand what kinds of industries are appropriate and what are not. Will there be needs for some kinds of controls (regulations), sure. Everyone can see that markets, for example, are part of the commons, and therefore, also require protection. This is actually the underlying notion of a so called "free" market. It is free because everyone can participate in it. It is also something which needs protection from time to time because markets show a marked inability to regulate themselves when subject to certain pathological pressures. When you understand that markets are a commons, then you will understand why it is necessary to protect everything that can enter a market. Markets are no more self-regulating than any other natural system. Like every other natural system, they only find a balance when they are in their proper niche. When they invade other niches, other "commons", they become unhealthy and cancerous. Free Market Ideology and the ensuing liberalization of trade around the world has lead to this state of affairs. These are all faults not of regulation, but of deregulation. Cap and trade is a failure because it represents an attempt to let the market
determine the price of pollution, thus leading to the atrocities mentioned by Heruka. The present form of green capitalism is doomed to failure for the same reasons the housing industry failed. It is another bubble. You heard it here first.
Capitalism eats itself. This is the main problem with unrestricted capitalism.
So the issue comes, how do we determine how much capitalism, how much manufacturing, what kind, etc. All of these are problems for which I confess I have no solution apart from a radical change in our social values, what we find important.
Property rights translated into civil rights when the notion of ownership transitioned from "pater famililias" to the individual person. We need to both extend the notion of rights to creatures (as we already do in Buddhism) and to our environment. We need to understand that all creatures have rights merely by virtue of being sentient. From a Buddhist POV, after all, this is what natural virtue and non-virtue is based on i.e. the fundamental recognition that taking the life of creatures of immoral, and so on. Sooner or later we have to realize that destroying our environment is immoral because of the "civil" rights of our environment. Our world is not inert dead matter. It is teaming with life, and it is not just there as ours to take and dispose of as we wish.