HHDL speaks about .....

[Heruka]

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/internation ... h-over.htm

Clash over Peru copper mine leaves at least 2 dead: officials


The demonstrations were organized against a plan by Southern Copper, owned by Grupo Mexico, to develop the Tia Maria mine in southern Peru. They say the company will pollute the environment and take over their water resources.

At the Arequipa regional hospital in southern Peru, doctor Rosemery Ocola told AFP that a protester died from a gunshot wound to the head.

[Heruka]

"... when the struggle seems to be drifting definitely towards a world social democracy, there may still be very great delays and disappointments before it becomes an efficient and beneficent world system. Countless people ... will hate the new world order ... and will die protesting it. When we attempt to evaluate its promise, we have to bear in mind the distress of a generation or so of malcontents, many of them quite gallant and graceful-looking people."



H. G. Wells

[Heruka]

[Heruka]

[Heruka]

[alwayson]

Dude you need to relax then maybe you'd be more persuasive.

It is a fact that these European debt crisises, in general, were caused by their socialistic governmental policies.

Actually, that is the biggest load of propaganda I've encountered in my whole lifetime. And my life has unfolded in the age of spin.

The sovereign debt crisis in Europe occurred because sovereignty bailed out the toxic private debts of investment banks. Most of these toxic debts were........well, they were not in Europe. Why don't you start your causal chain of **facts** from 2007/8?

You talk about 'what's stalling the recovery' without reference to what caused the crisis. And then you impute a different cause from the deep recesses of ideological lunacy.

Astonishing.

German chancellor blasts Greek retirement age and vacation:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 94,00.html


"Greek governments have, among other things, customarily run large deficits to finance public sector jobs, pensions, and other social benefits"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_s ... sis#Causes


"For more than a generation, Greece has been lax over its spending, paying out salaries on the government dime, with huge holiday bonuses. Many employees were paid as though they'd worked a 14-month year, instead of 12. That extra money gave many Greeks a road to early retirement, for some even in their 50s. "
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/greeks-streets ... d=10567233


This is common knowledge among everyone in the world......I guess except you.

[Heruka]

the system has failed......

[Heruka]

whitey on the moon!!!

[Heruka]

[tobes]

German chancellor blasts Greek retirement age and vacation:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 94,00.html


"Greek governments have, among other things, customarily run large deficits to finance public sector jobs, pensions, and other social benefits"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_s ... sis#Causes


"For more than a generation, Greece has been lax over its spending, paying out salaries on the government dime, with huge holiday bonuses. Many employees were paid as though they'd worked a 14-month year, instead of 12. That extra money gave many Greeks a road to early retirement, for some even in their 50s. "
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/greeks-streets ... d=10567233


This is common knowledge among everyone in the world......I guess except you.

Are you actually arguing that the fact that long running fiscal deficits in Greece is suddenly effecting global capital markets.....is unrelated to what happened in 2007/8!!??

This is the most spectacular failure to see causality in living history.

It's like wandering over to Hiroshima in 1946, and thinking "Gee, those Japanese people really don't build their buildings very well."

[Sönam]

btw, this yoyo playing of evaluation agencies giving good or bad points to countries is
this financial global system of ours is in total panic, stock exchanges everywhere is also playing yoyo ... the system is completely falling apart.
Who can really believe that, in the time coming, the global financial situation and the situation of so called "free world" can recovere? who can really believe that undebted countries (the asholles ) will pay their debts because citizen of those countries will accept to be over and over loaded ? who can really believe than others countries belgium, france ... and even usa will not be devaluated by this agencies ... and who can really believe that peoples of these countries will finally accept to pay that debt?
The global financial system is digging his own grave ... and cannot do otherwise


Sönam

[catmoon]

Sorry guys, this topic is locked while we clear out some flames.

Update: topic is open again. Several posts have been editted for offensive content. I have removed as little as possible, but I expect the flame war to stop as of this post.

[Sönam]

He says in 2-3 weeks ...

[Malcolm]

mispost...

[Malcolm]

Deep ecology is an interesting one. I'm not convinced that a Buddhist ontology naturally leads in that direction....usually there is a Spinozist kind of monism underpinning deep ecology, and/or a German romanticism which reifies "nature" to be God's playground.

Naess's thinking was influenced by Spinoza, Mahāyana Buddhism, eetc.

However, Buddhist ethics are not androcentric.

I think maybe in some of the East Asian Buddhisms, where there are Taoist influences coupled with Buddha Nature extended into the phenomenal world, a deep ecology could be defended. And I suppose within the context of Tibetan Buddhism, the kinship between humans, spirits and environment involves a very delicate interdependence. So I suppose that is where the idea is coming from.

Classical ecological appeals in Buddhist literature (and always to kings) tend be social in their wording, but the assumptions they spring from are deep.

But I'm not sure about the Indian traditions per se. The natural world is considered conditioned like everything else. Impermanent, something to be liberated from. There is no metaphysical reason to privilege the natural or biological world ahead of the world of production and social relation. There are all imbued with the same ontology.

I don't agree. What one is liberated from are the afflictions, one is liberated in the world. The common metaphor of environmental harmony in classical Indian sources is the rishi surrounded by predators and prey in a jungle retreat where all are abiding peacefully.

And actually, I quite like EF Schumacher's argument: a Buddhist inspired economics would begin by an ethical consideration of what is really valuable for humans. Production is important because, not only do we need to eat, but if it is structured ethically, it offers the possibility of kusala activity.

I think maybe deep ecology devalues production too much. As far as I can see, the problem is not production per se, but how it is currently configured and what motivates it.

I think you are conflating anarcho-primitivism with deep ecology. Deep ecology is not a form neo-ludditism.

For example, Naess writes:

"The early morning sun also lightens up a faraway (thirty miles long) string of metallic electric masts and thick wires -- hydroelectric power destined for Oslo, two hundred miles away. Each mast is an elegant structure revealing much love and ingenuity on the part of the engineers, but such a string of masts transforms the landscape. If only a few mountainous landscapes were changed in this way -- why complain and feel sorrow? But the number of landscapes without these strange beings diminishes rapidly. There are now more than two million gigantic masts around. The masts would have have a less disturbing character if the power was used to increase the quality of life. But to a large extent, the power is wasted, which contributes to making people unaware of their fantastic material richness..." (An Example of Place: Tvergastien, The Ecology of Wisdom, Naess, Counterpoint, 2008)

However, he also notes:

"The environmental crisis could inspire a new rennaissence; new social forms for co-existence together with a high level of culturally integrated technology, economic progress (with less inteference), and a less restricted experience of life." (Ecology, Community and Lifestyle: Outline of an Ecosophy, Naess, Cambridge University Press, 1993)

But here is a quintessential and often ignored principle of Naess's thinking. Many people unfairly claim that deep ecology insists that human beings must sacrifice themselves on the cross of environmental martyrdom, and sadly, many people professing the deep ecology view do make these kinds of claims -- but both parties have either not read Naess clearly, or they are choosing to ignore him. He writes:

"The special obligation we have for our own species requires us in the long run to ensure that a population has what is necessary to provide the conditions for reaching the ultimate goals of humankind and satisfying vital needs. Beyond that, our obligation is to life in general and to the earth as a whole aquire priority."

This is an echo of Santideva' instruction to preserve one's own health in order to benefit others.

And:

"High level humanitarian norms justify ecologically negative policies. The policies however should be short-range. And often, these short-range, ecologically harmful policies can be avoided through the cooperation of rich and poor nations on a greater scale than ever before."(Sustainability! The Integral Approach, The Ecology of Wisdom, Naess, Counterpoint, 2008)

[Malcolm]

Better hope so, because oil's time is running out.

[Malcolm]

http://real-agenda.com/2011/10/04/honduran-farmers-slaughtered-in-name-of-global-warming/

Honduran Farmers Slaughtered In Name Of Global Warming

23 farmers in Honduras were slaughtered in cold blood by hired mercenaries as they tried to protect their land from being seized by a corporation who wanted to use the land to produce biofuels as part of a United Nations-accredited EU carbon trading scheme.

“Protests erupted in July when six international human rights advocacy groups presented a report to the EP detailing what they called murders and forced evictions of peasants in El Bajo Aguán Valley of northern Honduras, ” reports the New American.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech-main ... edit-clash

Anyone who understands anything in the ecology movement, understands that stripping third world nations of agricultural land and pristine forests to plant monocrops for so called biofuels is a disaster. This is not an example of the failure of the climate change science, but a failure on the part of a colonialized goverment to protect its citizens againt rapacious corporate interests.

WTO and UN are in close league with one another. The WTO implements the treaties that UN engineers. The environment has largely been compromised by free trade liberalization; the UN mainly is a janitor for sweeping up the debris left in the wake of the world globalization of trade.

“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.”
-- Adam Smith

[Heruka]

N, im still looking at the peak oil fear subject, there are some interesting counter arguments that are not put out there by oil companies for peak oil supply and demand market manipulation. Some interesting science on this topic.

i will put some up when i have sniffed around.
Not saying its right or wrong, just think it is good to have the discussion.

H

[Heruka]

http://www.questionsquestions.net/docs04/peakoil1.html

the ebb and flow of the abiotic vs peak oil debate.

[Malcolm]

http://www.questionsquestions.net/docs04/peakoil1.html

the ebb and flow of the abiotic vs peak oil debate.

What a real petroleum geologist has to say about abiogenic oil (it's bullshit, of course and is only used as FUD by right wing conspiracy theorists). *Note that following paper is dated after 2004,the year of the debate among your journalists.

Geoffrey P. Glasby of the Laboratory for Earthquake Chemistry, Graduate School of Science, University of Tokyo writes:

"Summary
The preceding sections have outlined the two principal
theories of abiogenic formation of petroleum hydrocarbons.
The Russian-Ukrainian theory of deep, abiotic
petroleum origins was an attempt to formulate a scientifically
rigorous theory of hydrocarbon formation
which could play a major role in the exploration and
exploitation of hydrocarbon deposits in the Soviet
Union in the immediate post-war period. The theory is
rigorous in its interpretation of the thermodynamic data
for the conversion of methane to higher hydrocarbons at
high temperatures and pressures. However, the formation
of higher hydrocarbons from methane is only one
step in the complex chain leading to the formation of
commercial petroleum deposits and there are several
major objections to this theory. First and foremost is the
fact that the mantle is too oxidizing for methane to form
there in abundance. Furthermore, most volatiles including
methane are transported from the mantle to the Earth’s
crust in magma and not by faults as required by the theory.
The occurrence of major oil and gas fields in crystalline
basement rocks was also taken as confirmation of
the abiogenic theory. However, this assumption predates
modern theories of fluid migration in the Earth's crust.
The theory also identified a number of mechanisms by
which higher hydrocarbons can be formed abiogenically,
of which serpentinization of ultramafic rocks does have
the potential to produce commercial oil and gas fields.
Proponents of the abiogenic theory have also emphasized
perceived inadequacies of the biogenic theory for the formation
of petroleum hydrocarbons.
However, at the time that the abiogenic theory was at
its peak from the 1950s to the 1980s, it was not possible
to assess the relative merits of these two theories objectively
on the basis of the then existing scientific data
and this only became possible with the development of
much more sophisticated techniques for the analysis of
the organic constituents in petroleum such as GC/MS in
the 1980s. As a result, a much more detailed understanding
of the pathways of organic constituents from
source rocks to petroleum was established which
offered convincing evidence to support the biogenic
theory. By contrast, the abiogenic theory made no real
attempt to explain the formation of the very complex
mixture of organic compounds which make up oil.
A major claim of the Russian-Ukrainian theory of abiogenic
hydrocarbon formation is that it had major successes
in the discovery of oil and gas deposits in crystalline
basement rocks. However, it now appears that the great
oil fields of the Volga-Urals region, the northern Urals
and western Siberia were discovered not as a result of
application of this theory as its proponents claim but by
the use of conventional exploration methods which gave
“the final word to the borehole”. Furthermore, recent studies
of the petroleum resources of the Dnieper-Donets
Basin in the Ukraine by the U.S. Geological Survey have
been interpreted entirely within the framework of conventional
petroleum geology with no mention made of an
abiogenic source of hydrocarbons. These failures of the
Russian-Ukrainian theory in areas where it has claimed its
greatest successes essentially bring its role as a viable theory
on which to base exploration programmes for commercial
hydrocarbon deposits to an end. As a matter of
fact, this theory is now largely forgotten even in the
Former Soviet Union and virtually unknown in the west.
The deep gas theory of Thomas Gold is based on the
assumption that deep faults play the dominant role in
the continuous migration of methane and other gases to
the Earth's surface and that this methane is then converted
into oil and gas in the upper layers of the Earth’s
crust. However, this reaction is not thermodynamically
favourable under these conditions and can not be facilitated
by the presence of bacteria. In addition, deep
drilling of the Siljan Ring did not offer any convincing
evidence for a dominant mantle source for hydrocarbon
formation there. This theory is therefore invalid."

http://static.scribd.com/docs/j79lhbgbjbqrb.pdf


(***If you quote an economist at me about anything anymore, I will vomit, since they are only useful for forensics, and should not be trusted to predict anything at all with accuracy.Economists get paid to make predictions which inevitably fail. As for people in the financial industry who crow about their predictions in terms of the housing crisis etc. Three words: "All Bubbles Pop". It does not take sophisticated computer modeling to figure this out.)