Getting Real, Getting Dirty

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby xylem » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:53 pm

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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby Virgo » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:56 pm

xylem wrote:At the same time, when a dharma sister comes to me and says she doesn't feel safe, that's real.

-XY

Virgo wrote:

Hi Xylem, I can't really speak to that situation without knowing exactly how all the poeple there acted (impossible without having been there). Maybe she overacted (not saying this is the case) or maybe the men were too aggressive.

In general, I agree with Namdrol. Buddhist women are rare, especially ones you actually want to bring to your bed.

Kevin
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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby xylem » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:08 pm

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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby Virgo » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:10 pm

Namdrol wrote:Proof? Men's bathrooms and women's bathrooms.

N

Oh theres some nasty women around where I live.

Kevin
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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby xylem » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:12 pm

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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby Virgo » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:12 pm

xylem wrote:people shouldn't have affairs with people in the sangha. the fallout can be distracting and damaging to the whole community if things go badly. if people want to hook up, leave the sangha, check things out, and come back as a couple or two individuals.


I don't believe Namdrol is talking about affairs (but you'd have to hear that from him of course). In general those are very, very bad, unless the partners of both the individuals don't really mind.

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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby Pero » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:52 pm

Virgo wrote:I can tell you what I personally think is wrong with it. You are not seeing people on an equal level but defining them by their outer charachteristics and trying to be "fair" to all these divisive classes you delusionally invent, when you see "woman", "black guy" etc. and treat them in any particular way whether bad or good based on such a classification. It is nothing more than racism (and sexism) in a nice way-- it's its flipside. Division is bred from defining and classifying people based on speech, culture, skin pigmentation, hair texture, shape of a persons genitals, etc. It's limiting, divisive, and impractical if you truly want to see all people equally. It's the game of division, with nice nice intentions. We need to all be equal, together, and not divided and then "brought together" because of our stupid skin colors.

IMO seeing a black guy and thinking "he's black and I'm white" is just a matter of fact. It is not what causes division. Denying it would be plain stupid. What causes "division" is whatever judgments arise after that. There is no problems in classifying "white", "black", "yellow". There is a problem when it becomes "white-superior", "black, yellow-inferior".

And other than in being sentient beings, we are not all equal at all, that is just a fantasy. But then again, that alone is how we should be able to understand one another better, if only we weren't complete idiots that we are.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby Virgo » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:01 pm

Pero wrote:
Virgo wrote:I can tell you what I personally think is wrong with it. You are not seeing people on an equal level but defining them by their outer charachteristics and trying to be "fair" to all these divisive classes you delusionally invent, when you see "woman", "black guy" etc. and treat them in any particular way whether bad or good based on such a classification. It is nothing more than racism (and sexism) in a nice way-- it's its flipside. Division is bred from defining and classifying people based on speech, culture, skin pigmentation, hair texture, shape of a persons genitals, etc. It's limiting, divisive, and impractical if you truly want to see all people equally. It's the game of division, with nice nice intentions. We need to all be equal, together, and not divided and then "brought together" because of our stupid skin colors.

IMO seeing a black guy and thinking "he's black and I'm white" is just a matter of fact. It is not what causes division. Denying it would be plain stupid. What causes "division" is whatever judgments arise after that. There is no problems in classifying "white", "black", "yellow". There is a problem when it becomes "white-superior", "black, yellow-inferior".


Right. We notice things, naturally. Acting based on those outer classifications whether for good intention or bad intention is where the problem lies, I feel. That is when we become divisive.

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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby alwayson » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:24 pm

Namdrol wrote:First of all, Buddhists, male and female, have a hard enough time getting laid.

Secondly, woman do most of the cleaning because men are slobs. It is not a plot. Woman, in general, have different needs around neatness than men do. Proof? Men's bathrooms and women's bathrooms.

N



Good Point.

We men ARE slobs.
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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby deepbluehum » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:31 pm

Namdrol wrote:First of all, Buddhists, male and female, have a hard enough time getting laid.


Lol TMI! "I'm very experienced in tantra," doesn't work for you? If it doesn't, me thinks you're on the wrong part of the globe. Maybe come to LA. In SF there's a place called "One Taste" where you can rent a room for $600/mo and get into the orgies. Don't ask me how come I know this (awkward!)
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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby alwayson » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:31 pm

Virgo wrote:Oh theres some nasty women around where I live.

Kevin



Thats hot?
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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby Virgo » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:49 pm

alwayson wrote:
Virgo wrote:Oh theres some nasty women around where I live.

Kevin



Thats hot?

Maybe.

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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby alwayson » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:59 pm

Virgo wrote:Maybe.

Kevin



Nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-XhyLqC344
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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby Malcolm » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:06 am

xylem wrote:people shouldn't have affairs with people in the sangha.




I assume by "affair" here you mean consensual relations between adults who are not otherwise in relationships already?

If so, then I think you are being very extreme.

N
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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby Virgo » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:21 am

alwayson wrote:
Virgo wrote:Maybe.

Kevin



Nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-XhyLqC344


:D

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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby Virgo » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:27 am

Namdrol wrote:
xylem wrote:people shouldn't have affairs with people in the sangha.




I assume by "affair" here you mean consensual relations between adults who are not otherwise in relationships already?

If so, then I think you are being very extreme.

N

That would be more like the Judeo-Xtian community.

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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby kirtu » Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:10 am

Namdrol wrote:
kirtu wrote:
Namdrol wrote:PC Buddhism, yuck, spare me.


What's PC about no hitting on people and trying to be welcoming to everyone and not making women do most of the cleaning?

Kirt



First of all, Buddhists, male and female, have a hard enough time getting laid.



I haven't personally noticed that at all - of course I don't usually have sex with Buddhists so maybe you meant Buddhist on Buddhist sex - but I'm also not checking people out in the groups either (although I did have a woman come up to me and tell me that so and so was her boyfriend and basically I needed to stay away from him - I was attracted to him but hadn't said anything to him at all beyond hi, etc.).

Secondly, woman do most of the cleaning because men are slobs. It is not a plot. Woman, in general, have different needs around neatness than men do. Proof? Men's bathrooms and women's bathrooms.


I've hardly ever seen a woman's bathroom so I wouldn't know. Some guy's bathrooms are really super organized ....

Kirt
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“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby kirtu » Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:14 am

Virgo wrote:
In general, I agree with Namdrol. Buddhist women are rare, especially ones you actually want to bring to your bed.


What? Buddhist women are rare? Where are you, on one of the Survivor Island's or something? Many groups are largely women. Now as for whether or not you are attracted to them, that's another issue.

Kirt
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Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby kirtu » Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:18 am

Namdrol wrote:
xylem wrote:people shouldn't have affairs with people in the sangha.


I assume by "affair" here you mean consensual relations between adults who are not otherwise in relationships already?

If so, then I think you are being very extreme.


I agree with Namdrol on this - it is a bit extreme. Just so long as we don't have relationship drama in the sangha. But on retreats we shouldn't have people hooking up (except, depending on the retreat for married or committed couples).

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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Re: Getting Real, Getting Dirty

Postby kirtu » Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:25 am

Kevin, Kevin, Kevin - starts out fine (mostly):

Virgo wrote:
kirtu wrote:
What's PC about no hitting on people and trying to be welcoming to everyone and not making women do most of the cleaning?

Kirt

I can tell you what I personally think is wrong with it. You are not seeing people on an equal level but defining them by their outer charachteristics and trying to be "fair" to all these divisive classes you delusionally invent, .... It is nothing more than racism (and sexism) in a nice way-- it's its flipside. Division is bred from defining and classifying people based on [this, that, and the other thing] It's the game of division, with nice nice intentions. We need to all be equal, together, and not divided and then "brought together" because of our stupid skin colors.


... but then slides straight into US generational warism ....
My generation, in general, does this less than older generations (I am 31). The generation that is younger than me, in general of course, does this even less than my generation (of course there are always many exceptions). Older generation, in general, are addicted to classifying peoples and then treating either nicely or not nicely ...


and thus ends up reifying generational concepts. That's okay - your culture is adicted to it. Just this summer I was tutoring an NYU student on AJAX and he made similar comments about older people and browser issues ... he backtracked a bit when I sarcastically brought it out.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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