Buddhism & Guns?

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby Nemo » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:17 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:So, for me, it is pretty damn clear that if somebody says that guns are not for killing that either they are a) Naive to the point of brain dead stupidity or b) Purposefully deceptive (including self-deception) in order to justify their agenda.
Civilians think dumb things based on movies and imagination. They have no practical appreciation of industrialized killing. I agree with you completely. Escalating the level of violence by becoming armed is directly counter to what the Buddha taught.

TheSpirit wrote:I think you are rather the naive one beyond imagination. Yes Gun was created to shoot. Does it has to kill? Yes it can. You can also shoot a guy legs off and then immobilize him without killing.The intruder might not have a gun and can easily empower reddust.


Shooting to wound only works in movies. Perhaps she should just shoot the guns out of her enemies hands.
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby TheSpirit » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:40 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:
TheSpirit wrote:I think you are rather the naive one beyond imagination. Yes Gun was created to shoot. Does it has to kill? Yes it can. You can also shoot a guy legs off and then immobilize him without killing.
When was the last time you shot the legs off a sentient being?

Here is (Warning: graphic and distrubing images) a link to a simple google search with pictures of people with non-fatal (and some fatal) gun shot wounds.

So, while perusing the photos, ask yourself: Would I want somebody to inflict that sort of suffering on me? I think the answer will be pretty obvious.

Then ask yourself: Given that other sentient beings suffer as I do, why would I want to inflict that sort of suffering on them?

If the answer to that question is: "To save my own ass (or the ass of those I am attached to) at the cost of theirs", then the doctors diagnosis is that you are suffering from self centred grasping.

Look up Tonglen and Lojong techniques, they are a must for "non-sensical Buddha wannabes".


Do you have trouble grasping what I am saying? Are you seriously saying that if there is an intruder that could very much cause harm or kill your loved one such as your own children and parents, you shouldn't do anything about it in the name of compassion?

You obviously not grasping what I am saying with
why would I want to inflict that sort of suffering on them?
Are you even reading what I said at all or are you just pick out random phrases to attack?
No I dont want to inflict pain on anybody. I do not go around killing and hurting innocent people. I do not go around swing my guns threatening random people and or my neighbors. I repeated that over and over again but it seems like you are just not registering it. How hard is it to understand such concept? I do not want to hurt anybody unless I have to in order to defend and protect my family/loved one which are completely innocent. My guns stay home and stay hidden, out of sight always unless I go to gunrange for target practicing. What make you think I want to inflict pain on anybody?

Nobody shed me compassion if the intruder raped or kill my family, rob and kill my parents? My grandmother who was 87 just recently got beaten up robbed and and got her skull damaged, she passed away in a coma. Did they have compassion for her when they do that? Did my grandmother go around threatening people? No. Do you even have loved one that you can imagine being harmed in such way? If you do and you have no shed of feeling for it then this conversation needs to end.

There is such thing as wise and reasonable compassion and dumb/ignorant compassion. And just because I want to protect those that are closed to me when being threaten doesn't mean I am not compassionate. I sympathize with those who suffers. I am active in various organizations aiding communities and people worldwide for all sort of reasons to lessen their suffering.Just as right now I am running a project of collecting winter clothes for homeless and family with financial problem living in poverty that they can't afford warm clothes or maybe gifts for their children for the holiday. However don't expect me to have compassion when you are a direct risk to my family. Most gun owners also know that having a gun is enough to chase off unarmed intruder, however if they are armed, then it can save your lives and your family lives.

That is like saying a police officer shouldn't shoot a terrorist because he/she doesn't want pain inflicted on him so he/she wont inflicts pain on someone who is obviously a great risk or is harming others.

I think it is very clear here that our values are very different. How we perceive the teaching is also different so I'm done discussing this with you because we are going in circle. I repeated myself too many times.
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby TheSpirit » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:54 pm

Nemo wrote:
Sherab Dorje wrote:So, for me, it is pretty damn clear that if somebody says that guns are not for killing that either they are a) Naive to the point of brain dead stupidity or b) Purposefully deceptive (including self-deception) in order to justify their agenda.
Civilians think dumb things based on movies and imagination. They have no practical appreciation of industrialized killing. I agree with you completely. Escalating the level of violence by becoming armed is directly counter to what the Buddha taught.

TheSpirit wrote:I think you are rather the naive one beyond imagination. Yes Gun was created to shoot. Does it has to kill? Yes it can. You can also shoot a guy legs off and then immobilize him without killing.The intruder might not have a gun and can easily empower reddust.


Shooting to wound only works in movies. Perhaps she should just shoot the guns out of her enemies hands.


No, civilians do not think dumb things based on movie because people here die all the times from break in and intruders. My family is affected and people I know was killed so it is very realistic. I am not quite sure where you are from but you really have no realistic idea of what is going on, atleast where I am from.

Shooting to wound do not only just happen in movie. If you know anything about gun you know it is possible. Most gun fight will probably be around 20 ft if it is an intruder. It is very easy to aim specifically at various anatomy part at that range. Also if you have a rifle, it is a lot easier to aim and very accurate at 20 ft at their legs, and just a small caliber such as a .22 it will wound the intruder to slow them or immobilize them temporary but do not kill. Also pistol can also equip laser point which make it easier as well. However within 20ft, I don't need a laser point to aim and shoot at their legs and not miss.
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:52 pm

There have been studies done on this stuff, even trained professionals have a hard time doing things like shooting accurately, or in time, under stress. much less someone with a fraction of their training. I grant that a few civilians out there might rival the level of training for someone like say, a SWAT team member, but most don't even come close. Something like shooting to wound isn't even in the ballpark for many people, IMO. Look up the Tueller drill.

If you want non lethal, arm yourself with something that has a better chance of being non lethal, or I don't know, take your chances riddling him with a .22 lol.

I'm really sorry for your experience too, violent crime is a sad, terrible thing. But, it doesn't mean there are dangerous intruders breaking in everywhere, that is just not the case statistically, in addition as I mentioned before violent crime is quite often done by acquaintances and is not random. Again, I just doubt you have real need of a gun for self defense, ultimately you don't have to justify the decision to DW though, just yourself...so there ya go.
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:04 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby justsit » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:56 pm

From the Chronicles Project - Trungpa Rinpoche at the redneck bar.

"...Out in the parking lot, after we had all gotten into the car with the windows open on this warm summer's night, a man approached from out of the gloom with a rifle in his hand that he trained on Rinpoche, who was sitting in the front passenger's seat. I was sitting directly behind him, looking up the barrel of the gun, and I clearly heard the man say, "I'm going to frak blow your head off, you frak chink bastard."

Silence. Mind stops. Wide awake, Nobody moves. A drawn-out pause. Rinpoche replies, "Go ahead, shoot." ...

Read the rest here.

Of course CTR was just a crazy Kagyupa.

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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:18 pm

TheSpirit wrote: My grandmother who was 87 just recently got beaten up robbed and and got her skull damaged, she passed away in a coma. Did they have compassion for her when they do that? Did my grandmother go around threatening people?
I am very sorry to hear that this happened to your grandmother. OM AMI DEWA HRI. May she quickly be reborn in the Pure Land of Dewachen.

I sympathize with those who suffers. I am active in various organizations aiding communities and people worldwide for all sort of reasons to lessen their suffering.Just as right now I am running a project of collecting winter clothes for homeless and family with financial problem living in poverty that they can't afford warm clothes or maybe gifts for their children for the holiday.
That is excellent to hear. Dedicating the merit from these actions to your grandmother will be of great benefit.

The Parable of the Saw
"Monks, even if bandits were to savagely sever you, limb by limb, with a double-handled saw, even then, whoever of you harbors ill will at heart would not be upholding my Teaching. Monks, even in such a situation you should train yourselves thus: 'Neither shall our minds be affected by this, nor for this matter shall we give vent to evil words, but we shall remain full of concern and pity, with a mind of love, and we shall not give in to hatred. On the contrary, we shall live projecting thoughts of universal love to those very persons, making them as well as the whole world the object of our thoughts of universal love — thoughts that have grown great, exalted and measureless. We shall dwell radiating these thoughts which are void of hostility and ill will.' It is in this way, monks, that you should train yourselves.

"Monks, if you should keep this instruction on the Parable of the Saw constantly in mind, do you see any mode of speech, subtle or gross, that you could not endure?"

"No, Lord."

"Therefore, monks, you should keep this instruction on the Parable of the Saw constantly in mind. That will conduce to your well-being and happiness for long indeed."

That is what the Blessed One said. Delighted, those monks acclaimed the Teaching of the Blessed One.
From The Kakacupama Sutta
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby TheSpirit » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:30 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:There have been studies done on this stuff, even trained professionals have a hard time doing things like shooting accurately, or in time, under stress. much less someone with a fraction of their training. I grant that a few civilians out there might rival the level of training for someone like say, a SWAT team member, but most don't even come close. Something like shooting to wound isn't even in the ballpark for many people, IMO. Look up the Tueller drill.

If you want non lethal, arm yourself with something that has a better chance of being non lethal, or I don't know, take your chances riddling him with a .22 lol.

I'm really sorry for your experience too, violent crime is a sad, terrible thing. But, it doesn't mean there are dangerous intruders breaking in everywhere, that is just not the case statistically, in addition as I mentioned before violent crime is quite often done by acquaintances and is not random. Again, I just doubt you have real need of a gun for self defense, ultimately you don't have to justify the decision to DW though, just yourself...so there ya go.


If he or she has a gun, I won't take time to shoot to wound only. I will just aim and shoot as quick as possible. However if I have time and intruder is still going forward attacking me with something other than a gun, I think I will spend a bit more time and effort in trying not to kill him/her. This is why you practice target shooting. I won't guarantee it but atleast the effort and the intention is there. Maybe intruder shouldn't be breaking in in the first place. Police officer won't take chances trying to wound them, they deal with people who are deadly and alot of cases armed. They won't take time to wound them, their responsibility is to eliminate threat. So no, in the heat of the moment, I highly doubt they will take time to wound the target especially when the target is such a high risk.

I have a .22 rifle but my main gun is a 12 gauge 3 inch shot gun. My partner prefer pistols of various larger caliber. So I will be honest once again as I stated before. I don't think I have as much compassion to those that want to kill me and my loved one. In case of an unarmed break in, I will let them know they have a chance to turn around and leave or they can get shot. Same thing reddust did, she gave the intruder a chance. I think that is pretty compassionate.

I think your experience and mine are difference as to the need for a gun. So I will leave that at that and say we agree to disagree. You have your own experience and your stance on the issue.
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:33 pm

I think your experience and mine are difference as to the need for a gun. So I will leave that at that and say we agree to disagree. You have your own experience and your stance on the issue.


You started this thread to ask about Guns in Buddhism, and throughout it you seem to not even be considering that what other people are saying, namely that there might be real reasons to consider not owning a gun as a Buddhist. So basically, you just wanted people to reinforce beliefs you already held?

Maybe intruder shouldn't be breaking in in the first place.


See, if you are willing to kill someone, readily, for breaking in, before thinking about simply getting away, or thinking more about deterrence.. that right there is IMO, an issue for a Buddhist. Your intent goes to being punitive rather than being safe. Taking that kind of stance is doing something with your mind that is, I think..not the best thing in Buddhist terms.
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:47 pm, edited 6 times in total.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby TheSpirit » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:38 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:
TheSpirit wrote: My grandmother who was 87 just recently got beaten up robbed and and got her skull damaged, she passed away in a coma. Did they have compassion for her when they do that? Did my grandmother go around threatening people?
I am very sorry to hear that this happened to your grandmother. OM AMI DEWA HRI. May she quickly be reborn in the Pure Land of Dewachen.

I sympathize with those who suffers. I am active in various organizations aiding communities and people worldwide for all sort of reasons to lessen their suffering.Just as right now I am running a project of collecting winter clothes for homeless and family with financial problem living in poverty that they can't afford warm clothes or maybe gifts for their children for the holiday.
That is excellent to hear. Dedicating the merit from these actions to your grandmother will be of great benefit.

The Parable of the Saw
"Monks, even if bandits were to savagely sever you, limb by limb, with a double-handled saw, even then, whoever of you harbors ill will at heart would not be upholding my Teaching. Monks, even in such a situation you should train yourselves thus: 'Neither shall our minds be affected by this, nor for this matter shall we give vent to evil words, but we shall remain full of concern and pity, with a mind of love, and we shall not give in to hatred. On the contrary, we shall live projecting thoughts of universal love to those very persons, making them as well as the whole world the object of our thoughts of universal love — thoughts that have grown great, exalted and measureless. We shall dwell radiating these thoughts which are void of hostility and ill will.' It is in this way, monks, that you should train yourselves.

"Monks, if you should keep this instruction on the Parable of the Saw constantly in mind, do you see any mode of speech, subtle or gross, that you could not endure?"

"No, Lord."

"Therefore, monks, you should keep this instruction on the Parable of the Saw constantly in mind. That will conduce to your well-being and happiness for long indeed."

That is what the Blessed One said. Delighted, those monks acclaimed the Teaching of the Blessed One.
From The Kakacupama Sutta


Thank you, I do appreciate your kind words.

I dedicate the merits to all beings wishing them joy. I also appreciate the story, however I don't think I can practice that, especially when it concerns others than just me.

I believe there are many story of the Buddha past lives in which the Buddha have to kill in order to save many innocent people. I am not also a full practitioner of The Buddha's way so I pick and choose which is best compatible with my practice of Shinto as well. I practice meditation, try to do good deeds, and try my best to follow the eightfold paths but it leaves a lot of room for interpretation as well.
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:43 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:"Therefore, monks, you should keep this instruction on the Parable of the Saw constantly in mind. That will conduce to your well-being and happiness for long indeed."

That is what the Blessed One said. Delighted, those monks acclaimed the Teaching of the Blessed One. From The Kakacupama Sutta


The saw simile is great and is for fully enlightened arahants, which we should strive for too. However . . . something I mentioned in a similar thread over at Dhamma Wheel about dealing with intruders breaking into your home . . .

The one scenario I haven't seen mentioned yet is this:

What about the home invader who is not interested in stealing your money, your televisions, your jewelry. He and his accomplices break in to kill you and your family. Now the situation is changed quite a bit. It is not simply a case of letting him in, letting him take some things and leaving you and your family alone. He is coming in to kill. You can use the saw simile for yourself, but are you willing to use the saw simile for your spouse and children? Tough decisions . . .

Yes, it is rare, but it does happen. Not too long ago a group of criminals did a home invasion, raped and killed the wife and daughter of a physician. The physician was tied up in the basement and they set the house on fire. The doctor was able to escape and survived. His wife and daughter were murdered.

The obvious best course is to call the police and escape out the back with your family. But what if there is no opportunity to escape? Do you potentially use deadly force to save your family members? Perhaps you might be advanced enough to apply the saw simile for yourself, you have no selfishness; but how about your family members? Do you leave them to fend for themselves? Tough choices, with no real correct or easy answers.
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby TheSpirit » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:47 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:For someone who has exposure to firearms I think you might have an unrealistic view of your capabilities with them in a real situation..take an active shooter class or something, I don't think you have the capabilities you think you do.

I've known alot of victims of violent crime, some of them very closely, and I grew up in a fairly violent place. I just drew different conclusions than you have about the need to own firearms.

I think your experience and mine are difference as to the need for a gun. So I will leave that at that and say we agree to disagree. You have your own experience and your stance on the issue.


You started this thread to ask about Guns in Buddhism, and throughout it you seem to not even be considering that what other people are saying, namely that there might be real reasons to consider not owning a gun as a Buddhist. So basically, you just wanted people to reinforce beliefs you already held?



Excuse me but I do take classes for shooting. I don't know what I said that make you think it is unrealistic. I said if I feel a huge immediate threat, I will just point and shoot. How unrealistic can that be? I said I wont guarantee 100% that I will perfectly wound them if I try in situation that I can? How unrealistic is that. That is me admitting my capability so no I don't think I am a dead on shooter.

I also recognized the difference of your stance on gun with me as well and I don't agree with it neither do you agree with mine. I see the benefits and know the benefits of my stance and you probably have your.

And also I stated, I am pretty sure what my stance on the issue is. I just want to know what the majority of this forum member thinks about it. And since some of the post on here seem to impose a very immature stereotype to all gun owners and some even with sarcasm so I take my time clarifying it because I don't do what some of you guys seem to think I do just because I own gun. Also I don't think it hurts to introduce a different perspective on the situation. I don't see anybody who is against gun consider my stance on it really, I hardly find it is my responsibility to accept your.

Thank you very much but I think we are pretty much done.
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:12 pm

TheSpirit wrote:I have a .22 rifle but my main gun is a 12 gauge 3 inch shot gun.
What a coincidence, a 12 gauge shotgun was the Buddhas weapon of choice too (though he did have a preference for sawn-offs: lower range, decreased probability for fatality, increased probability for hitting target at close range).

sawn-off buddha.jpg
sawn-off buddha.jpg (15.23 KiB) Viewed 228 times
Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby TheSpirit » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:13 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:
TheSpirit wrote:I have a .22 rifle but my main gun is a 12 gauge 3 inch shot gun.
What a coincidence, a 12 gauge shotgun was the Buddhas weapon of choice too (though he did have a preference for sawn-offs, lower range, decreased probability for fatality, increased probability for hitting target).

sawn-off buddha.jpg


Now you really can feel the power of the Buddha :o
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby muni » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:14 pm

There are places in this world where no guns are allowed to own and these people have family, children as well.
When A buys a gun, B as well must have one. If A wasn't allowed to do so, B neither should be allowed and there was no reason to have one.

I hope the youtube I posted is seen.
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:34 pm

TheSpirit wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:For someone who has exposure to firearms I think you might have an unrealistic view of your capabilities with them in a real situation..take an active shooter class or something, I don't think you have the capabilities you think you do.

I've known alot of victims of violent crime, some of them very closely, and I grew up in a fairly violent place. I just drew different conclusions than you have about the need to own firearms.

I think your experience and mine are difference as to the need for a gun. So I will leave that at that and say we agree to disagree. You have your own experience and your stance on the issue.


You started this thread to ask about Guns in Buddhism, and throughout it you seem to not even be considering that what other people are saying, namely that there might be real reasons to consider not owning a gun as a Buddhist. So basically, you just wanted people to reinforce beliefs you already held?



Excuse me but I do take classes for shooting. I don't know what I said that make you think it is unrealistic. I said if I feel a huge immediate threat, I will just point and shoot. How unrealistic can that be? I said I wont guarantee 100% that I will perfectly wound them if I try in situation that I can? How unrealistic is that. That is me admitting my capability so no I don't think I am a dead on shooter.

I also recognized the difference of your stance on gun with me as well and I don't agree with it neither do you agree with mine. I see the benefits and know the benefits of my stance and you probably have your.

And also I stated, I am pretty sure what my stance on the issue is. I just want to know what the majority of this forum member thinks about it. And since some of the post on here seem to impose a very immature stereotype to all gun owners and some even with sarcasm so I take my time clarifying it because I don't do what some of you guys seem to think I do just because I own gun. Also I don't think it hurts to introduce a different perspective on the situation. I don't see anybody who is against gun consider my stance on it really, I hardly find it is my responsibility to accept your.

Thank you very much but I think we are pretty much done.


I didn't impose any stereotypes on anyone, and I don't know where you got that from, I wouldn't call myself "against guns" either. I also don't think (from what you've said here) you've thought much about safety or self-defense outside of owning a gun, which is the problem really, you think the gun is going to be what makes you safe, that it will do the job for you, and that is a big misconception.

Also I don't think it hurts to introduce a different perspective on the situation.


It's just not a very reasoned perspective, you are saying 'well i'd kill someone if I had to", I think we all pretty much would, especially in situations like the one David mentioned. The point is whether or not you've actually done something to keep yourself safe though, including evaluating the actual danger you're in, taking an active shooter class, having plans etc...or whether you want to continue owning guns because it provides an (often false) sense of security. Sorry man, but it really sounds like the latter to me. It's certainly possible i've missed something, and if the talk is upsetting we can stop.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby TheSpirit » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:48 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:I didn't impose any stereotypes on anyone, and I don't know where you got that from, I wouldn't call myself "against guns" either. I also don't think (from what you've said here) you've thought much about safety or self-defense outside of owning a gun, which is the problem really, you think the gun is going to be what makes you safe, that it will do the job for you, and that is a big misconception.

Also I don't think it hurts to introduce a different perspective on the situation.


It's just not a very reasoned perspective, you are saying 'well i'd kill someone if I had to", I think we all pretty much would, especially in situations like the one David mentioned. The point is whether or not you've actually done something to keep yourself safe though, including evaluating the actual danger you're in, taking an active shooter class, having plans etc...or whether you want to continue owning guns because it provides an (often false) sense of security. Sorry man, but it really sounds like the latter to me. It's certainly possible i've missed something, and if the talk is upsetting we can stop.


Johnny I was commenting on generally to others who responded with, in my opinion, stereotypes, not you specifically as a response to why I am posting.

You might not think it is reasoned but I think it is. But no my perspective is the fact that whether owning gun is wrong livelihood is not based on its pure objective fact of owning the gun but the intention behind it and its uses which determine whether or not it is correct or incorrect livelihood.

If it makes you feel better, I did have a pit bull dog, though no longer because I hardly have the time for him and I feel bad that he is not receiving the attention he should. I also have security alarm. I also try not to pissed of my neighbor, I also think of place that I can go within my own home to give myself more time and avoid intruder if that is the case. I also have a lock on my door. I also have a gun. However I find it just abit off topic of whether or not I take other precaution since I am talking specifically about gun. And like I said before, just because I have other precaution, doesn't mean I don't need a gun, it is part of the plan. It doesn't provide a false sense of security, it is a precaution. It is no less of a "false" sense of security than locking the door or having a security alarm.
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby TheSpirit » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:52 pm

muni wrote:There are places in this world where no guns are allowed to own and these people have family, children as well.
When A buys a gun, B as well must have one. If A wasn't allowed to do so, B neither should be allowed and there was no reason to have one.

I hope the youtube I posted is seen.


What part of the world are you from Muni.
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby Qing Tian » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:56 pm

... the problem really, you think the gun is going to be what makes you safe, that it will do the job for you, and that is a big misconception.


Brilliant! That is exactly what a distressingly large number of people seem to believe. As if the gun is some sort of policeman.

It's rather disturbing how the prevailing sentiment in the US remains gun centered when so many (if not all) other civilised countries can demonstrate through direct action that society does not need guns. Personally I think it is a throwback situation in the US. Of course there are exceptions in circumstances. If one is living in the wild where dangerous animals abound then having a gun is likely a sensible choice.

No, in the US, in my opinion, the gun is not the problem in itself, but the mistaken belief that it is the panacea for all society's ills. I vaguely remember a Simpson's episode with Homer Simpson embracing the NRA and gun ownership to the point where he uses the gun for everything - need the lights turn on, bang, done etc. At the time I saw that episode I thought they had nailed US gun culture.

And I also think JD is correct in this thread. The OP is strongly putting across position that he/she is seeking validation of an existing view.
“Not till your thoughts cease all their branching here and there, not till you abandon all thoughts of seeking for something, not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.”
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:15 pm

muni wrote:There are places in this world where no guns are allowed to own and these people have family, children as well.
When A buys a gun, B as well must have one. If A wasn't allowed to do so, B neither should be allowed and there was no reason to have one.


That isn't the case in the U.S. as you know. Here in the U.S. there are about 300 millions guns in circulation for about 320 million people.

Even if there were absolutely no guns in the entire society, how would you answer my post above if the intruders broke into your home, with intent to kill and were using machetes?
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Re: Gun and Buddhism

Postby TheSpirit » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:17 pm

Qing Tian,

Please read what I posted. I have no interest of validating my thoughts or stance on gun. I stated in one of my response that I already know before posting this topic what my stance on gun is and I believe it with no problem. I am not posting asking for suggestion or planning to reconsider my belief on that. I simply am just interested in knowing what Buddhist here thinks about gun and thought it would spark a good discussion. I also said it probably have more to do with the geographic region than anything. Don't make assumption. I don't think my stance on gun is that inferior to those who is against it so therefore I do not need validation.

And for the record, if anybody think gun alone can keep them safe or can do the job for them, they are a serious fool. I don't think gun will solve all my problem, will solely alone keep me safe. Nor will it do the job for me. But it is one of the act that can. Also you all seem to put such emphasis on the gun itself and not the owner. The gun do not just walk and pull the trigger by itself. So no, gun alone wont do the job.

Your civilized nation came about from war. Not that I support war.
“To be fully alive is to have an aesthetic perception of life because a major part of the world's goodness lies in its often unspeakable beauty.”
― Yukitaka Yamamoto
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