Buddhism & Guns?

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Padme » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:34 am

Dechen Norbu wrote:
Padme wrote:
Sönam wrote:There is always an inter-action between your acts, and what is "acted on you" ... therefore if you buy a gun you strongly multiply the eventuality to be brought into a situation where you will use that gun ... it works so, acting in a direction and you solidify events in that direction.
You are today in a situation where you fear something bad happening, therefore you can take two different directions, accelerate the process buying a gun or trying to decelerate it.
I would'nt buy a gun, I would not considere it as a solution ... also I don not have your solution but it exists many other ways to solve your fear.
It's may ba simply that you desire that place, but that this place is not desired for you ...

Sönam


Well, as you can see in my above post, I am not actually in fear. And I don't feel unwelcome here either, I'm just trying to take precautions. But regarding the first part of your post, I can't say I agree. I lose power here a lot because I'm in the mountains and the lines hit the trees frequently. Are you implying that I'm more likely to lose power because I keep plenty of candles and lanterns in the house? Do you see what I mean? Or that I am more likely to break down in my Jeep because I keep an emergency kit and jumpers in the back? I view a self defense weapon the same way. Something I hope I would never need, but might be glad I have in the unlikely even of an emergency. Now if I drove to the store every time with the jumpers in my lap, or carried my lantern around the house every night, I could see your point (although even then I'm not sure I think it would increase my chances of a break down or power outage). But again, I am not a fearful person, who will be clutching a gun and peering nervously out my window at night. I'm simply trying to be prepared.


Just a little detour. What Sonam is saying, the part in bold (by me), is not completely off the mark. The fact that one has a gun may propitiate the ripening of karma related to some sorts of violence. In a way, we add a secondary circumstance in our life that may allow the manifestation of certain types of karmic potential. I stress the may. It's not a clear cut thing, but it's not like the example you pointed padme (the candles and lanterns stuff). :smile:

Whatever you decide to do, I hope all works out.


If it is not like the candles and jumpers examples, then I guess I don't understand. I'd be interesting in reading more about this, if anyone knows any links that explains/elaborates on this a bit more. And thank you, Dechen Norbu, I'm sure I will make the right decision for me.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby mudra » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:45 am

Weapons can be a last line of defense, but very very often they provoke situations you would rather not have - especially guns.

Two stories from when I was 19 years old traveling through Afghanistan (very early 70s):

1. I checked into a hippie hotel in Kabul w my girlfriend, sat down on the bed and five minutes later we were both bitten to bits by bed bugs. I got our bags and apologised to the management and told them there was no way we could sleep there, showed him the bites etc. He insisted we pay the full night. I said no, we had just been in the hotel 10 minutes etc. Then all hell broke loose, I found myself pushing my girlfriend behind me, in front of me were two Afghans carrying two by four inch wooden beams coming at me. As my pseudo martial art stance didn't seem to deter them, I whipped out a four inch folding knife that I used for peeling fruit. That bought us just enough time to get out on the street. I was so d..n happy they didn't call my bluff, because I am not sure what would have happened buyt the most likely scenario was me in a coma in some local hospital and my girlfriend, um let's not go there. I think nowadays I would use my wits more.

2. On that same trip a couple of months later two American brothers who had been walking around the world came through Kabul. It was Ramadhan, people were edgy, and the US embassy thought it was a good idea to give them a pair of shot guns as protection. One night, camped above the Khyber pass (which is weapons copying manufacture central) they heard people sneaking up on them. Figuring to scare them (seems the Americans never did understand Afghan mentality) they fired off one of the shotguns. True to form, the Afghanis just opened fire in return, killed one of the brothers, severely injured the other, and got both guns - which was what they were after in the first place. Shooting off the shotgun just alerted the robbers that there was something valuable "worth" killing for.

If I were you I would get a smart breed of big dog like a doberman (they are not necessarily super killer dogs, depends on how you raise them but they are smart and loyal). If a doberman doesn't deter someone a gun most likely won't. And even if you use end up using a gun you will most likely create very bad karma.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby hairybeast » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:48 am

If you still have not decided to buy a gun . Maybe Get a bullet proof vest, a Cane, and a new belt.

You mentioned you have some physical limitations. A cane would possibly work as well as be disguised as a weapon .

If you wear pants or Jeans . Buy an extra long belt that could sorta be used as a weapon. ( i know most belts affiliated with skateboarding are flexible enough to whip around like num chucks or a whip . )

this is a link to give u an idea what they look like
http://www.freestyleshop.com/fl503.html

if you looked around on ebay you can prolly pick one up for under $10 .

any kind of belt with a heavy belt buckle should be str8.

I highly doubt weapons like a Cane or a Belt will kill someone ( ofc they can kill, Strangulation with the belt, and a few skull crushing blows with a cane will prolly kill a person )

if Martial arts classes are not with in the budget or area, do what you can with your current resources.

Youtube Cane as self defense or the alike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnDdN8W5 ... re=related

tons more on youtube.

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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:08 am

Adamantine wrote:Well I know of at least one Ngakpa-yogi nomadic community of the last century which had a gun and used it to protect their gompa from Chinese bandits on camels that had wreaked terror and robbed and killed many people throughout all the neighboring areas. This was in combination with intensive propitiation of the protectors but without going into details let's just say that right won out over might, and some heavy pujas were done to top it all off. This inevitably saved many more gompas, monasteries and other innocents from much potential continued harm. In the Vajrayana, there are liberation rights but these are only for the most advanced pracitioners-- it is said it is required to have the power to revive from the dead in order to be qualified to engage in this activity. For those of us who are not at that level it is of course important to avoid killing at all costs, but I think it is clear that Padme wants a simple deterrent or in the worst case scenario a non-lethal alternative. Like I said, guns can be non-lethal in the hands of someone well-trained. Bean-bag rounds are a good alternative too, along with the stun grenades, etc.
So in 2500 years of Buddhism you know of one instance where weapons were used by Buddhists and that justifies buying a gun and sticking it in somebodies face because they are bored/stupid/drunk or any combination of the three?
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sönam » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:01 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
Adamantine wrote:Well I know of at least one Ngakpa-yogi nomadic community of the last century which had a gun and used it to protect their gompa from Chinese bandits on camels that had wreaked terror and robbed and killed many people throughout all the neighboring areas. This was in combination with intensive propitiation of the protectors but without going into details let's just say that right won out over might, and some heavy pujas were done to top it all off. This inevitably saved many more gompas, monasteries and other innocents from much potential continued harm. In the Vajrayana, there are liberation rights but these are only for the most advanced pracitioners-- it is said it is required to have the power to revive from the dead in order to be qualified to engage in this activity. For those of us who are not at that level it is of course important to avoid killing at all costs, but I think it is clear that Padme wants a simple deterrent or in the worst case scenario a non-lethal alternative. Like I said, guns can be non-lethal in the hands of someone well-trained. Bean-bag rounds are a good alternative too, along with the stun grenades, etc.
So in 2500 years of Buddhism you know of one instance where weapons were used by Buddhists and that justifies buying a gun and sticking it in somebodies face because they are bored/stupid/drunk or any combination of the three?
:namaste:


In the worst possible situation, His Holiness Dalai Lama, facing thousands "Chinese bandits", choose not to use guns ... under hard pressure he did choose to leave ...
Is that what you wanted, a buddhist case of behavior? ... or you do not want to considere "that kind" of behavior?

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Luke » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:03 pm

Padme wrote:I'm dumbfounded. I certainly never said anyone was disappointing me, I just felt we were getting off track from my actual question and I *thought* I very respectfully clarified and even took blame if my post was misleading. As to me "thinking I am better than my neighbors", I don't know where you get that or why you would say something like that. I don't think I am better than anyone and not sure what I could have said that would give you such an opinion; I'm just shocked. My neighbors are great people, they just don't live close enough to run to easily, where in the world did you get that I think I am better than them or anyone? I don't even know what else to say, I'm just feeling very misunderstood and judged by your comments.

Well, I didn't mean to completely mentally unbalance you. Any text has multiple interpretations. I was just talking about one possible interpretation of what you wrote. What is "the real you" is something I can't know through text alone.

Where did I get such ideas? I think it was basically from this paragraph of yours:
Padme wrote:The locals around here would have NO CLUE what I mean by wanting to "do no harm". They already think I'm weird just for being a vegetarian, so having a chat about loving-kindness, refraining from harm, etc is greek to them.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:31 pm

There is a cultural context to this thing which always comes up in these discussions..a divide of sorts.

In New Mexico in certain circles gun ownership and useage for certain things is as natural as anything.
Cowboys like in the movies..they like as not carry guns, so do ordinary peoples in certain places.
The idea a gun is simply by itself a bad thing depends solely on cultural context and anticipated useage or reason for carrying.

It is simply not your urban reason for carrying a gun.

That aside I remain with point...this person asked here...this person should absolutely not have gun.

Buddhists carrying guns gets us back to the old argument on weaponry and has been introduced in this discussion...well if one is advanced one doesn't carry a gun....those assertations are only assertations by my take. Buddhists have in certain contexts(again) always carried weaponry.Many figures can be found having iweapons of the day with them in some fashion,in some forms of buddhism.
A weapon is only a tool and how we use it is the issue. I could easily see a cowboy diety that protects riding on horse having a six shooter silly as that seems.
And total pacifism while a esteemable quality is not necessarily advocated for by those amongst us who are considered advanced.
HHDL (I can provide quote)..does indeed agree with the necessity to protect oneself in some circumstances.Falling short of killing another he certainly would as well...WE may perhaps say that...one advanced.... by his example may protect oneself be not entirely passive and not kill another.

The karmic effects of killing another are just to grave to think one can continue as they were on the spiritual path. it may be done but would be most most hard to do.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:52 pm

ronnewmexico wrote:Buddhists carrying guns gets us back to the old argument on weaponry and has been introduced in this discussion...well if one is advanced one doesn't carry a gun....those assertations are only assertations by my take. Buddhists have in certain contexts(again) always carried weaponry.Many figures can be found having iweapons of the day with them in some fashion,in some forms of buddhism.
You are not aware of the symbolism in Buddhist iconography?

A weapon is only a tool and how we use it is the issue.
A chainsaw is a tool too, it is used for cutting trees (though is not limited to that cf the bathroom scene from scarface). A spanner is a tool too (a wrench in US english) it's used for tightening bolts, though hittin' somebody over the head with it can be quite effective. A gun is a tool too. What's it used for again??? :thinking: Oh yeah! Shootin' and killin'! I guess you could use it to knock nails into a lump of wood too but...
:namaste:
Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby pemachophel » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:00 pm

Padme,

IMHO, forget the gun(s). Rather, develop absolute faith in and devotion to your Guru. Truly take Refuge from the bottom of your heart. These should be a true Buddhist's main sanctuaries. On top of that, practice tong len (sending and receiving) sincerely and without reservation. Practice chod if you've received that practice. It is truly wonderful. Pray to and make offerings to the Dharmapalas and Protectresses every day, and, most importantly, try to see the essence of your fear. Even better, try to find the one who experiences that fear. The Dharma has the power to change not only you but the world you perceive around you. This is not just some fairytale. As the Buddha has said, this apparent world is an illusion, and, like an illusion, it is not solid and fixed. The Dharma is magic and it does work as it did for Guru Rinpoche, Yeshe Tsogyal, Milarepa, Thangtong Gyalpo, Drukpa Kunlek, and all the other great saints and sages of Tibetan Buddhist lore if you practice it whole-heartedly. More than a hundred generations of Buddhist practitioners have experienced this magic for themselves, and the best among them have even demonstrated this magic to others.

A little story: A friend of mine came back from Kham a year or so ago and showed me some pictures of a recently departed Dzogchen Master. Even before death, this Master had been giving off bowls full of ringsel (sarira) of all different colors. The teeth of his comb were full of them just from brushing his beard ad hair. At one point prior to His death, this Master gave one of His closest students one of His teeth. He told the student that his realization was quite OK but that he still needed to develop more faith. The student put the tooth on his altar in a jar. The tooth started giving off ringsel, filling the jar, continuing this even after his Master's parinirvana. This Master's body was still sitting in His meditation chamber one year after His death. Every day, His disciples had to sweep the ringsel off the floor so they could walk in the room. Ringel were even manifesting in the shrine room below the Master's chamber. It was assumed that the Master would achieve the rainbow body if His body was left where it was.

We Westerners are very clever and know a lot about the Dharma. However, like this Master's student, for many of us, our faith is not all that good. As our Teachers conitually tell us, the greatest faith is the key to the highest accomplishment. It does work, but you gotta ante up.

Good luck and best wishes.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:02 pm

See in New Mexico cowboys don't carry guns to shoot eachother...I have never heard ot that happening not once..they carry guns mostly to shoot varmints.

Yes..they kill animals to protect their herd. It most commonly may in lowlands be snakes.
That is not what I would do as I try not to kill animals and don't eat meat but that is no great crime in a ameican culture.
Tibetans also use means to kill animals though they are not guns as they don't have the money for such things. Customarily very many Tibetans carry knives in certain parts of the country..it is not to kill other tibetans...it is a rural thing.

I carry gun...if I need to when in wilderness I will kill bear if I have to. Sad but it may happen. Bears as are people with age or illness may become demented and attack anything for no apparent reason. Moose if you are in thier area get a certain bug that works into their brain..they go insane as consequence.
I have no moose where I go but there are bear.

I would take every precaution to not do so...shooting a warning shot...bears hate loud noises that would send them away if they are sane.
I have yelled at bear and chased them away...

Bears killed and eaten by one..that would be quite sad and notspiritual.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:08 pm

ronnewmexico wrote:That is not what I would do as I try not to kill animals and don't eat meat but that is no great crime in a ameican culture.
It wasn't a crime to kill Jews during the nazi regime either, doesn't make it right.

Customarily very many Tibetans carry knives in certain parts of the country..it is not to kill other tibetans...it is a rural thing.
Actually it is to kill other Tibetans (and/or Chinese, Mongolians...) And carrying a pistol/rifle/shotgun around all day is not a rural thing, it's a redneck American thing.
:namaste:
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Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Padme » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:34 pm

Luke wrote:
Padme wrote:I'm dumbfounded. I certainly never said anyone was disappointing me, I just felt we were getting off track from my actual question and I *thought* I very respectfully clarified and even took blame if my post was misleading. As to me "thinking I am better than my neighbors", I don't know where you get that or why you would say something like that. I don't think I am better than anyone and not sure what I could have said that would give you such an opinion; I'm just shocked. My neighbors are great people, they just don't live close enough to run to easily, where in the world did you get that I think I am better than them or anyone? I don't even know what else to say, I'm just feeling very misunderstood and judged by your comments.

Well, I didn't mean to completely mentally unbalance you. Any text has multiple interpretations. I was just talking about one possible interpretation of what you wrote. What is "the real you" is something I can't know through text alone.

Where did I get such ideas? I think it was basically from this paragraph of yours:
Padme wrote:The locals around here would have NO CLUE what I mean by wanting to "do no harm". They already think I'm weird just for being a vegetarian, so having a chat about loving-kindness, refraining from harm, etc is greek to them.


That still makes zero sense to me. Because I think the locals wouldn't want to talk Buddhism, or because my neighbors think me being a vegetarian is weird, leads you to the conclusion that maybe I think I am "much better than them?" What a strange correlation. And I can assure you, you hardly "completely mentally unbalanced me"... I said I felt misunderstood and judged, not mentally unbalanced. You seem to read into my words and draw bizarre conclusions. You also gave me a lesson on "learning from my enemies" as if I implied in any way that the people in my town are enemies or even that I dislike them. I love my neighbors and our differences; I just don't happen to talk about Buddhism with them, because they can't, in fact, relate (this is not an assumption, they have told me this). That's not an insult to them or me. And one is certainly not better than the other. It's just differences between us. You are the one who ran with that and decided this must somehow mean I might think I am "much better than them". My sentence you quoted was in answering someone about why I prefer to talk to Buddhists about buddhism and neighbors about guns. I'm sure you have certain people who can relate to you on certain topics and others in your life that don't relate on those things; should I assume that you think you are better than those that don't relate as well? Of course not.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Padme » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:40 pm

ronnewmexico wrote:See in New Mexico cowboys don't carry guns to shoot eachother...I have never heard ot that happening not once..they carry guns mostly to shoot varmints.

Yes..they kill animals to protect their herd. It most commonly may in lowlands be snakes.
That is not what I would do as I try not to kill animals and don't eat meat but that is no great crime in a ameican culture.
Tibetans also use means to kill animals though they are not guns as they don't have the money for such things. Customarily very many Tibetans carry knives in certain parts of the country..it is not to kill other tibetans...it is a rural thing.

I carry gun...if I need to when in wilderness I will kill bear if I have to. Sad but it may happen. Bears as are people with age or illness may become demented and attack anything for no apparent reason. Moose if you are in thier area get a certain bug that works into their brain..they go insane as consequence.
I have no moose where I go but there are bear.

I would take every precaution to not do so...shooting a warning shot...bears hate loud noises that would send them away if they are sane.
I have yelled at bear and chased them away...

Bears killed and eaten by one..that would be quite sad and notspiritual.


A side note; aside from self defense from people; I do actually have both moose and bear here, which is also part of the reason why the neighbors suggest guns.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:41 pm

Chill out Padme, you are missing the wood for the trees!
:consoling:
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Padme » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:46 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Chill out Padme, you are missing the wood for the trees!
:consoling:
:namaste:


Sorry, but it's rather aggravating to turn to fellow Buddhists for a Buddhist perspective on something, only to have a character assessment, and a wrong one, made on me. Expected this place would be the last place to see this sort of thing. I appreciate all the advice here that actually relates to my question, but not so much the judgmentmental aspects of Luke's posts.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:57 pm

It is possible that a bear could enter your home and eat you. As i mention that did happen to a woman in new mexico several years back, a rural community.

A area with grizzley, I'd say a high powered gun may be a only option, but probably that is not the case...so there may be other options. But if bear is a possibility I would not rule out a gun. Really mace may not stop a mad bear. But the chances of that are very very slim to happen that one would attack a house. Bears establish territories and if they become demented even then one would not expect to find a forest bear in a people living type area. Mostly you would run into a bear with no territory ....a young bear looking to establish a territory. Or one that has established a territory and included your home in it...most of those are quite rational and will stay away from humans unless you leave food around.

Moose with that brain tick...generally they just walk around aimlessly ending up in cities at times. Elk will occasionally attack when they are in the rut.
Moose could be a lot like elk I'd guess but attacking one is a home is not possible. In the wild you have to watch for that but not in home.

But gun on human...that is a whole differing ballgame. Other weapon is much more conducive to use than a gun in any context.
So gun for bear perhaps and other for human if necessary..is my suggestion :smile:

Sounds like something out of a story book...bear entering your home and eating you..but yes that happened.
The same bear that was shot by a neighbor coming into his kitchen window several years back also tried to break into a playhouse i have. A rodent had made a home under it...it pried some of the boards to the door of it off...quite intelligent actually.
Generally I like to see them around and they are good neighbors.

Mad bear...is very very rare. I spend most years for the past ten years a month and a half in wilderness....so I may run into mad bear as I spend so much time in their homelands. I have not but expect at some time I may. But home....pretty slim chance of that. Plenty around but they don't bother with us at all. If you have water or a wet period, is when they will roam and extend their territories.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Padme » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:17 pm

ronnewmexico wrote:It is possible that a bear could enter your home and eat you. As i mention that did happen to a woman in new mexico several years back, a rural community.

A area with grizzley, I'd say a high powered gun may be a only option, but probably that is not the case...so there may be other options. But if bear is a possibility I would not rule out a gun. Really mace may not stop a mad bear. But the chances of that are very very slim to happen that one would attack a house. Bears establish territories and if they become demented even then one would not expect to find a forest bear in a people living type area. Mostly you would run into a bear with no territory ....a young bear looking to establish a territory. Or one that has established a territory and included your home in it...most of those are quite rational and will stay away from humans unless you leave food around.

Moose with that brain tick...generally they just walk around aimlessly ending up in cities at times. Elk will occasionally attack when they are in the rut.
Moose could be a lot like elk I'd guess but attacking one is a home is not possible. In the wild you have to watch for that but not in home.

But gun on human...that is a whole differing ballgame. Other weapon is much more conducive to use than a gun in any context.
So gun for bear perhaps and other for human if necessary..is my suggestion :smile:

Sounds like something out of a story book...bear entering your home and eating you..but yes that happened.
The same bear that was shot by a neighbor coming into his kitchen window several years back also tried to break into a playhouse i have. A rodent had made a home under it...it pried some of the boards to the door of it off...quite intelligent actually.
Generally I like to see them around and they are good neighbors.


Yes, not grizzly bears here but black bears. I grew up in the deep woods of Maine, so I do know well the things they can do. One time we thought our barn had been broken into (by a person) and it turned out to be a bear after the grain, or whatever the heck was in it that he wanted. Another time we came home and a black bear was sitting on our porch. Literally! Just sitting, with his butt on the top step. We had to sit in the truck for an hour or so waiting for him to finally wander off. I haven't seen a bear here, where I live now, yet, but my neighbors have. I built my chicken coop like fort knox which works great against all predators but bear. If they want in, they'll get in. We also have some wild cats here too. I've seen their scat but never them in person. I do see plenty of moose though. My brothers' car was demolished when a moose hit it, crushed the roof in flat with their baby in the car. He and his wife were injured, but the baby was so small in the back car seat that she came out of it completely unharmed. I have not seen any 'crazed' moose yet, but I do know it's a possibility.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:23 pm

Chieckens will attract bear. I'm surprised you didn't have a problem.

My appologies for deviating from point but I really like this video and consider it related.... :smile:

.......
hope you enjoy.

Not rural peoples just don't get it I think. We had another person attacked and their dog killed and eaten by a bear last year in another area around here..
Quite sad as it was the persons fault by having foods around. Still sad their dog killed and eaten..probably just trying to protect their owner...how sad. But bears do go mad same as people do. Rare certainly but they do.

All the bodhisattvaic intent in the world will not help being eaten by mad bear. That would be quite sad to loose time as human for such mundane cause...as food, especially when unlike the buddha's experience other is around.

Here is a link on the last mentioned thing....peoples may think I am conviently making this thing up as I have adovcated against dogs as means of protection......http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/environment/bear-attacks-woman-camping-in-sandias

The dog was found dead..... :rolling: the real story...they found the remains of the dog in the bears stomach upon autoposy of the bear. BEar attacks human they autoposy it to see if it had some disease that caused the attack they should look for.

Here is a not local story on a bear with rapies.The person apparently had bird shot in the shot gun not slug shot so the bear was not immediately killed but died some 30 minutes later from shotgun blast....http://www.californiapredatorsclub.com/index.php?showtopic=4721
That was a tiny bear. The people seem a bit cruel. The bear going in the kitchen window in our area was 400 pounds. My point is...bears do get rabies same as people do. The comments following the story..quite replusive. Those peoples have by my guess never ever been in wilderness and if hunters at any time they do it only in modern convience within safe environments. All hat no cattle as they say. Which is as things seem with peoples...those in most threat to their ideas are those with the least substance to defend them, and the most aggressive in their propogating/spreading of them. Like rabid are they to divert....to my experience. WE may perhaps find the world in one issue of discussion.

In fact if we read those comments, (in that last link)...those peoples making them are as deserving of compassion as are any of us, want happiness as we do but...they are barbarians. Buddhism... especially tibetan buddhism... refers as certain places and peoples being barbarians. We cannot deny we come from such a area where until very very recently the dharma had no exposure.... we are the barbarian place they talk about..one place not to be born into if one has a chance not to. So it is calling a apple a apple and not a orange. To ignore this reality as we feel equal compassion for them by my take is ignoring reality...read the comments on that link....that's it. Generally that is what one finds. Do we feel superior to them in a real sense..no we are all equal. Are we more overtly compassionate than they....certainly theirs is but a mundane compassion like a dog may feel compassion for its pups..by attachment is their compassion.....so this compassion to what is perceived by them unrelated is greater. In that fashion yes we are..decidely so.
So in one sense yes in another no. Should we hide our compassion and say it is as theirs is...I say not. Does this mean we are superior..of course not we are all equal in a final sense.

Skunks are quite often the host population in the wilds for rabies(not bats). Skunks are not predatored but a dead skunk may be eaten by a live bear or other animal. And they get demented with age same as people as well. Maybe you know these things. Others may not.
They suggest at times we should leave and go live somewhere else..well bears normally are very good neighbors occasionally as with people they cause problems...usually not and peaceful is our relaionship. European peoples where I live have lived with bears for 400 years. I saw bear tracks two days ago behind my house in a arroyo. No problem..him nor me.

I have tracked bear to see where they are going, it is most entertaining. Why did they go here as opposed to their, it says a lot about how bear thinks I have never found their picnic ground however....that I can say :smile:
I expect some day I will find it....I may.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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ronnewmexico
 
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Luke » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:56 pm

Padme wrote:Sorry, but it's rather aggravating to turn to fellow Buddhists for a Buddhist perspective on something, only to have a character assessment, and a wrong one, made on me. Expected this place would be the last place to see this sort of thing. I appreciate all the advice here that actually relates to my question, but not so much the judgmentmental aspects of Luke's posts.

And what is the nature of this "you" that requires so much of your energy to defend? I was merely suggesting possibilities to get you to examine yourself. If you're perfect and without any flaws or negative emotions, then disregard it.

It's simply the nature of a big, international forum that you will sometimes get replies that you never expected to get, which are written from points of view that you never considered.

Any persecution you feel is just in your mind. I have nothing against you. On the contrary, I hope you stay safe and find some good solutions to your current problems.

However, if you get angry this easily, then perhaps you should not own a deadly firearm.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Padme » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:33 pm

Luke wrote:
Padme wrote:Sorry, but it's rather aggravating to turn to fellow Buddhists for a Buddhist perspective on something, only to have a character assessment, and a wrong one, made on me. Expected this place would be the last place to see this sort of thing. I appreciate all the advice here that actually relates to my question, but not so much the judgmentmental aspects of Luke's posts.

And what is the nature of this "you" that requires so much of your energy to defend? I was merely suggesting possibilities to get you to examine yourself. If you're perfect and without any flaws or negative emotions, then disregard it.

It's simply the nature of a big, international forum that you will sometimes get replies that you never expected to get, which are written from points of view that you never considered.

Any persecution you feel is just in your mind. I have nothing against you. On the contrary, I hope you stay safe and find some good solutions to your current problems.

However, if you get angry this easily, then perhaps you should not own a deadly firearm.


I am not the least bit angry. I am simply annoyed. I asked what the position of Buddhists owning guns for self defense is; that is all I asked. I did not ask for your personal evaluation of me as a person and so it is not relevant or welcome. Perhaps you should look inward and ponder why you feel the need to analyze others when they aren't asking for your opinion on such matters.
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Padme
 
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