Buddhism & Guns?

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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:54 am

Ryoto wrote:Unfortunately, not everyone can be a Jackie Chan. Your advice is hilarious.
Your insistence in posting irrelevant nonsense is also hilarious. I was not talking to the OP, I was addressing Nemo and his issue. By the way, you don't have to be Jackie Chan in order to poke somebody in the eys when they grab you.
:namaste:
PS Sorry Mr. Snyder but that poster must be the most ridiculous piece of propaganda I have seen in my life. What is the young woman meant to do with the assault rifle? Carry it to the mall when they go shopping? Have it tucked under her pillow when she goes to sleep? Take it with her on a date just in case somebody tries to rape her? Put it in her school bag to dissuade bullies? Ridiculous, paranoid and dangerous. Obviously you did not read the statistics I quoted, because you would have realised that she has an infinitely higher chance of using the gun to shoot and be killed (or killing) a relative in her home, or committing suicide, than ever using it against a violent criminal.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:37 am

This is what I call irrelevant nonsense. Stop being so dramatic all the time.
Do I smell the rancid stench of hypocrisy? I am being dramatic but the poster (and the intention behind the posting) is not dramatic? Or is it dramatic only when it supports the truth? The statistics are not mine, they are US government. Is the US government being dramatic? Or maybe the reality is dramatic?
Image
Is this dramatic or is this also the (dramatic) truth?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Nighthawk » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:05 am

Good lord. I was referring to the tone of your posts, not the stats. :roll:
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:26 am

Thank you for the useless stats...
Are you sure that you are only referring to the tone of my posts? Is not the tone of Mr Snyders post dramatic? Why not? Why is the tone of my posts dramatic? Where is the difference in tone exactly? A picture of a young girl carrying an AK47 as an advertisement for gun lobby nazis is not dramatic??? :shrug:

I really, truly, do not understand.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Blue Garuda » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:01 am

The Seeker wrote:
If your neighbours see you outside shooting a few times, my guess is that word will get around all right - police tend to regard it as a good reason to shoot you, which is always shoot to kill.


Umm she lives in a cottage in the mountains. The road the OP lives on the police won't patrol, and her neighbors are surprised she doesn't own a gun and tell her to get one. Check the first few pages of the thread, it's all there.
She does have reason to fear for her saftey.

I agree Nemo, the word would get around and then possibly another drunk may not bust in her door.


Kindest wishes, Dave


I was responding to Nemo and his advice to pick up the attacker and slam them into the wall, and also to his puff about being trained by a 9th Dan in something called the 'wtf'.

'Wtf' 9th Dan Black Belt does not trump 9mm. Belts are for sports egos, not self-defence.

Keeping a gun in the house is not 'bad luck'. It creates the causes and conditions for karma - which may be to kill an attacker and save them from the negative karma of killing you. Altrnatively, it may end up with killing someone who is drunk or on drugs and not a credible threat to your life. Here in the UK, the law is being strengthened to favour the householder more, as in the past people attacking burglars have been charged with criminal offences themselves. Sadly, we are not always given time to assess the risk, and many will favour lethal defence. If the OP gets a gun, and pretty much everyone else has a gun, and probably know how to use them, I can't see a good outcome at all - they may even break in to steal her shiny new gun!
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Seishin » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:01 am

IMHO a gun is just a piece of metal without bullets. So why not own a piece of metal? :shrug:

(PS, I'm completely ignorant about guns so my advice may not be educated enough)
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Dave The Seeker » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:15 pm

My appoligies BG, the joy of message boards......not sure sometimes what is meant and to whom :shrug:

Greg your point and statistics are true to an extent. In the area I live, out in the country very rural, there are a few deaths each year from carelessness with a gun in a home. If one owns a weapon it should be secured, and never kept loaded, at least not one in the chamber. But almost everyone here owns a gun. The law is never really quick to respond if at all.

Kindest wishes, Dave
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Blue Garuda » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:37 pm

The Seeker wrote:My appoligies BG, the joy of message boards......not sure sometimes what is meant and to whom :shrug:

Greg your point and statistics are true to an extent. In the area I live, out in the country very rural, there are a few deaths each year from carelessness with a gun in a home. If one owns a weapon it should be secured, and never kept loaded, at least not one in the chamber. But almost everyone here owns a gun. The law is never really quick to respond if at all.

Kindest wishes, Dave



That's a very valid point. A gun kept locked in a secure cabinet is not quiclky available for defence. Then again, neither is it available to the burglar to use on you. I think in the UK we are required to keep the gun and ammunition stored separately. Incidents I am aware of usually relate to hunting weapon accidents or urban gang killings with illegal guns.

I had an uncle who lived in a remote spot and was burgled a few times. He fitted bars and steel doors, alarms, etc etc.

Next time the burglars came, they took the roof tiles off to get in. LOL :)
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Spiny Norman » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:50 pm

Blue Garuda wrote:Next time the burglars came, they took the roof tiles off to get in. LOL :)


Roof tiles?! Sheer luxury! :jumping:

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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Nemo » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:16 pm

Blue Garuda wrote:
The Seeker wrote:
If your neighbours see you outside shooting a few times, my guess is that word will get around all right - police tend to regard it as a good reason to shoot you, which is always shoot to kill.


Umm she lives in a cottage in the mountains. The road the OP lives on the police won't patrol, and her neighbors are surprised she doesn't own a gun and tell her to get one. Check the first few pages of the thread, it's all there.
She does have reason to fear for her saftey.

I agree Nemo, the word would get around and then possibly another drunk may not bust in her door.


Kindest wishes, Dave


I was responding to Nemo and his advice to pick up the attacker and slam them into the wall, and also to his puff about being trained by a 9th Dan in something called the 'wtf'.

'Wtf' 9th Dan Black Belt does not trump 9mm. Belts are for sports egos, not self-defence.

Keeping a gun in the house is not 'bad luck'. It creates the causes and conditions for karma - which may be to kill an attacker and save them from the negative karma of killing you. Altrnatively, it may end up with killing someone who is drunk or on drugs and not a credible threat to your life. Here in the UK, the law is being strengthened to favour the householder more, as in the past people attacking burglars have been charged with criminal offences themselves. Sadly, we are not always given time to assess the risk, and many will favour lethal defence. If the OP gets a gun, and pretty much everyone else has a gun, and probably know how to use them, I can't see a good outcome at all - they may even break in to steal her shiny new gun!


I was talking to the OP. For her(female, older, with a degenerative muscular condition) MA is a waste of time. A reputation from shooting a few times on her property will scare away the low life and teenagers. This will not deter a hardened criminal, but almost nothing will.

Saying MA is a waste of time really struck a nerve though. First you say that my military training is nothing compared to the hardened vision of a true martial artiste like yourself. So I admit to being trained for a few years by a former Korean Special Forces Officer who battled NK commandos and spies to the death on numerous occasions. He went on to be chief combat instructor for the Korean military. WTF is WTF? http://www.wtf.org/wtf_eng/main/main_eng.html He is a Grandmaster in TKD, the highest rank available. So then you say,” 'Wtf' 9th Dan Black Belt does not trump 9mm.” Obviously a stylistic and anachronistic MA is not ideal. That is why I said he saved the best stuff for his government students. Which you call McDojo talk. I doubt you have even been in a real altercation leaving people in hospital and police charges. I think you are the one who is all “puff”.

IMO if you work as a soldier, commando, spy, police officer or even paramedic MA are great. Otherwise wasting all that time and energy that could be put to better use and ingraining fear and violence into your mindstream seems very neurotic. How often does the average person get into hand to hand combat? Ummmmm,… never.
Why not learn something you can actually use. I have been learning Chinese Tonic Medicine, a bit of acutpuncture, Ayur Veda, etc. It’s gotten to the point that people are asking me to treat them. Which I think is nuts, but it is making me seriously consider taking the appropriate training. This would actually be useful for sentient beings. Oddly my old Master loves TCM and has become a great acupuncturist. Eventually you have to grow up and stop playing superhero in your head and do something useful with your life.

P.S. Throwing people against objects is admittedly one of my signature moves. Corners of walls, car mirrors, other attackers, cement pylons and my personal favourite parking meters. I don’t like getting my hands dirty. I of course prefer choke holds like the sleeper, but what can you do. Fighting is about improvising. But I am working hard to flush this garbage out of my mindstream. I did feel bad about the last fight I got into with a fellow soldier. A month later he kicked a homeless man to death. Then I didn’t feel so bad throwing him onto that cement retaining wall.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Jikan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:24 pm

Nangwa wrote:
Jikan wrote:
Nangwa wrote:I enjoy going to the range to shoot targets. It's actually an interesting exercise in trying to stay present in loud and exciting circumstances.
I might go today as a matter of fact.


Well, the Shambhala people do kyudo, which, though interesting, always seemed a bit constipated to me. I think it's a more challenging exercise to stay present in *BORING* and loud circumstances (such as a rifle range or a dive bar).


Kyudo is fun but I prefer the shooting range and the dive bar add an element of risk and chaos.
More my style.
I like testing myself through new experiences and repeating them to see how I handle them. I just started going to the shooting range for this very purpose and have found the experience to be both enjoyable and rewarding.


Sure. I think it may depend on context: I grew up in Oregon and shooting ranges & dive bars are where you go find your mom's most recent boyfriend after school. For excitement, you go eat yogurt with the Montessori School kids' moms. "dualism condition..."
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Mr. G » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:29 pm

Nemo wrote: But I am working hard to flush this garbage out of my mindstream.


Me too. Haven't trained martial arts at all in years. My last training was in Pekiti-Tirsia and Sayoc Kali - To me, the Filipino knife arts are the pinnacle of modern close-quarter fighting. It's life and death, and no-nonsense. At the end of the day though, it just rots your brain.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:17 pm

Nemo wrote:IMO if you work as a soldier, commando, spy, police officer or even paramedic MA are great. Otherwise wasting all that time and energy that could be put to better use and ingraining fear and violence into your mindstream seems very neurotic. How often does the average person get into hand to hand combat? Ummmmm,… never.
Hmmm... I guess it depends on why one does martial arts. Sometimes people do it as a sport yah know! As for "ingraining fear and violence", I dunno what martial arts you studied (and who your teachers were) but I find that, through training, my students overcome their fear for a number of reasons:
1. They learn how to effectively deal with violence.
2. After getting punched and kicked during sparring sessions they reduce their fear of (and reaction towards) pain.

Again, a lot depends on the teacher. I warn my students about getting into fights (they get kicked out for fighting outside of lessons) and I quickly nip agressive and competitive behaviour during the lessons in the bud. I want to create a friendly and safe environment for men and women to come and work out and learn effective and simple techniques for defence purposes while doing so.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Norwegian » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:49 pm

Merely sparring and training will never equate actual fighting - whether on the street or in a competition, such as MMA for example. Hence a lot of what is being labeled self-defense, is nothing more than false security. So, some are fooled to believe that they're ready to handle themselves out on the street after having received a couple of belts or diplomas through their practice in the comfort of their gym, with their sparring partners and teacher. This is a big problem. The gym is a controlled environment, the street is chaos.

Imagine if you are on the ground in a fight, and you think it goes well because you're either about to apply a choke or a lock, when all of a sudden one of your opponents buddies comes along and kicks your head like a football, or just stabs you in the side with a knife... This is a very likely scenario, sadly. And stuff that happens on the streets can be very nasty.

Of course there's many good training centers - for Wrestling, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai, MMA, self-defense styles, and so on. But unless you've been in hot water, it's very hard to know how it will unfold. So best to avoid all of this altogether...
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:24 pm

Namdrol wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:Why is the tone of my posts dramatic?


Well, because they generally are.
Really? Well others have judged my posts as cold and reptilian. Go figure!

Anyway, it seems to me that these judgements are just a smoke screen to avoid looking at the contents of the posts. I mean really, how can statistics be dramatic? And I ask you the same question that I asked Ryoto: Why are my posts judged as dramatic whereas a gun nuts poster utilising emotional blackmail is not?

A distinct lack of objectivity perhaps?
:namaste:
PS Thanks for quoting me out of context! :twothumbsup:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:49 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:PS Sorry Mr. Snyder but that poster must be the most ridiculous piece of propaganda I have seen in my life. What is the young woman meant to do with the assault rifle? Carry it to the mall when they go shopping? Have it tucked under her pillow when she goes to sleep? Take it with her on a date just in case somebody tries to rape her? Put it in her school bag to dissuade bullies? Ridiculous, paranoid and dangerous. Obviously you did not read the statistics I quoted, because you would have realised that she has an infinitely higher chance of using the gun to shoot and be killed (or killing) a relative in her home, or committing suicide, than ever using it against a violent criminal.


I'm not a big fan of assault weapons, I just liked the words in that photo. It would have been more effective or better, imo, if she was holding a handgun. And then it would satisfy the other concerns you mention in your post. A handgun can easily be concealed and tucked away in a purse.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby mañjughoṣamaṇi » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:59 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:I mean really, how can statistics be dramatic?


"Figures don't lie, but liars figure." -- Samuel Clemens (maybe)

Why are my posts judged as dramatic whereas a gun nuts poster utilising emotional blackmail is not? (EMPHASIS ADDED)
སེམས་རྣམ་པར་གྲོལ་བར་བྱའི་ཕྱིར་བྱམས་པ་བསྒོམ་པར་བྱའོ།
“In order to completely liberate the mind, cultivate loving kindness.” -- Maitribhāvana Sūtra
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:28 pm

More smoke screens! More ad homs!

I am duly impressed!

So when logic petters out we turn to insults and judgement?

And what of the gun nut poster? It is not extreme, right? It's a balanced, moderate and objective view, right?

And mañjughoṣamaṇi, instead of adding emphasis why not try and answer the question (if you can, of course)?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby mañjughoṣamaṇi » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:36 pm

Greg,

I care little for the gun debate. I don't own a gun, although I enjoy skeet shooting as a leisure activity, and don't plan on owning a gun.

However, I do often avoid threads once you post in them because the hyperbolic quality of your posts tends to contribute to a less than hospitable environment for discussion. Labeling someone a "gun nut", for example, or accusing them of engaging in "emotional blackmail" is an example of this hyperbole and shows a disrespect for other posters who may disagree with your opinions.
སེམས་རྣམ་པར་གྲོལ་བར་བྱའི་ཕྱིར་བྱམས་པ་བསྒོམ་པར་བྱའོ།
“In order to completely liberate the mind, cultivate loving kindness.” -- Maitribhāvana Sūtra
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Paul » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:36 pm

Mr. G wrote:
Nemo wrote: But I am working hard to flush this garbage out of my mindstream.


Me too. Haven't trained martial arts at all in years. My last training was in Pekiti-Tirsia and Sayoc Kali - To me, the Filipino knife arts are the pinnacle of modern close-quarter fighting. It's life and death, and no-nonsense. At the end of the day though, it just rots your brain.


I used to do a lot of martial arts and I also agree that it doesn't do good things to your personality.

I've never understood the apparent 'spiritual' element of martial arts - to me a martial art is about killing, injuring or incapacitating.
Image

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All that you take pleasure in will strengthen the awakened state.
With such a confidence, empowered by the regal state of natural mind,
The training now is simply this: lets your six senses be at ease and free." - Princess Parani
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