Buddhism & Guns?

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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Silent Bob » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:14 pm

"All the sublime teachings, so profound--to throw away one and then grab yet another will not bear even a single fruit. Persevere, therefore, in simply one."
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Chaz » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:43 pm

Silent Bob wrote:This could save your life ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j1-xQA_ufE


This has completely changed my life - a change very similar to what I underwent after hearing Jon Wayne's "Texas Funeral" for the first time.


I am setting off to find this master and when I do, I will prostrate at his feet and say, "Oh Master, teach me everything you know!".
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby munoz » Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:20 am

Silent Bob wrote:This could save your life ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j1-xQA_ufE


Nice video man.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby bRianex » Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:40 am

Dechen Norbu wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:
I would say that the best deterrent to rape, assault, etc... is increased social service facilities, a larger and more well trained police force (and by well trained I don't mean they can shoot straight but trained in ethics, psychology, sociology, conflict management, etc...) a reduction in poverty, a well functioning justice system, an education system that also deals with personal development of the students and not only on whether they can spell and add properly, developing a real sense of community, etc...


Yes, definitely. Even for those who do choose to own guns, it should be only as a last resort and not the first option. In all confrontations, escape and avoidance are best. LE agencies have been getting better at training the officers on conflict resolution, negotiation, etc. There have been several instances where I could have used the gun, but was able to use negotiation and other methods to avoid it. In over 30 years I never once shot at a human or animal, thank goodness.

In some training classes, even gun safety courses, it is taught how to do some conflict avoidance, including letting insults roll off you. For example, if someone insults you or gives you the finger in person or while driving, etc., you don't escalate by insulting them back, you don't flash your gun to them, since doing so would actually be threatening them even if they "started it" with the insults. Letting insults roll off you and being thick-skinned is actually pretty Dharmic and can help you progress and is a sign of maturity.

I am not a big fan of warning shots, except in some rare instances because you never know where the bullet will come down. A better option is a gun with a laser light attachment. Many criminals will piss their pants when they look down at their chest and see a laser light on their torso.

Image


There are ammunition that while making a lot of noise are pretty harmless. In such a remote area, the pellets will scatter and their fall will hardly harm someone.

In the middle of a populated area, a warning shot may kill someone resting in his living room, so that's not a good option. A taser or mace usually are good options, since help usually comes quickly. This is why I've stressed Padme's circumstances so much. What applies to her needs may not apply to others. For her, mace or a taser would be out of the question. For a woman who have to walk home through a small park at night, these options are suitable.
In my own case I feel no need whatsoever to own a gun, a taser or a mace. But then I'm a man, 6.1 high, with years of martial arts training who lives at a peaceful area.

It's difficult for a woman in the middle of nowhere to negotiate with a couple of drunks with a boner. Better to shoot to the air while they are safely at distance, perhaps shouting "go away you rascals!" or something. I'm sure they'll wake up from their alcoholic torpor and turn around. It just doesn't worth the trouble. As the shot was to the air, they don't have their virility threatened either, so no macho bs is at stake . BTW, probably they wouldn't even see the laser pointer, even if it was on the tip of their nose!


I really like your idea about this *increased social service facilities, *a larger and more well trained police force, *a reduction in poverty and etc. I think you'r not passive in the environment and you can easily expressed it out. I also loved your idea of tasers. Really rocks! :quoteunquote: :reading:
Whatever is at the center of our life will be the source of our security, guidance, wisdom, and power.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sönam » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:22 am

just an info ... no more a discussion.
About this fantastic taser. French police is (was) using it, and because of few incidents and deaths (proximity, heart problems and others) it is now in discussion and the police is, for instance, only allowed to use it in strict conditions.
So it does not seem it's The Solution ...

Have a good shooting day ...
Image
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By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby jessica08 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:56 am

Can you help me to choose the best gun for self defense? Or any means of self defense.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:03 am

This one will get the job done every time!
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The US Government supplied them to the Afghani Mujahedin during their war against the Godless Russians (Commies). I reckon if it's good enough to take apart the Commie Empire, it's good enough for self (any) defence!
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:37 am

Padme wrote:I would appreciate some opinions on this. The people on the country message board are all a bit bias, because they are country folk and guns are all they know. I thought I might get a more open minded opinion here. How do guns (for protection) come into play with Buddhism and doing no harm? Completely out of the question, or a good idea for protection? What do you think?


From a purely practical point of view, I'd advise keeping well away from guns unless you are skilled in their use and are prepared to use them.

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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Nighthawk » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:06 am

If you have a bunch of thugs ready to kick the sh*t out of you. Would you defend yourself using a gun with the possibility of committing a few fatalities or would you rather let them kick the sh*t out of you which can possibly lead to your own fatality?
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:22 am

Ryoto wrote:If you have a bunch of thugs ready to kick the sh*t out of you. Would you defend yourself using a gun with the possibility of committing a few fatalities or would you rather let them kick the sh*t out of you which can possibly lead to your own fatality?
What am I doing hanging out with a bunch of thugs? Why do I have a gun with me? What am I, a cowboy or somethin'?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Nighthawk » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:49 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
Ryoto wrote:If you have a bunch of thugs ready to kick the sh*t out of you. Would you defend yourself using a gun with the possibility of committing a few fatalities or would you rather let them kick the sh*t out of you which can possibly lead to your own fatality?
What am I doing hanging out with a bunch of thugs? Why do I have a gun with me? What am I, a cowboy or somethin'?


Ok if you want to get technical. Let's say they broke into your house.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:52 am

Ryoto wrote:Ok if you want to get technical. Let's say they broke into your house.
Let's get untechnical and say that these reductive arguments about self defence which lead to an "either use the gun and kill them or die yourself" choice are ridiculous. I have been beaten by a group of thugs before in my life, it's no big deal.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby wisdom » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:55 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
Ryoto wrote:If you have a bunch of thugs ready to kick the sh*t out of you. Would you defend yourself using a gun with the possibility of committing a few fatalities or would you rather let them kick the sh*t out of you which can possibly lead to your own fatality?
What am I doing hanging out with a bunch of thugs? Why do I have a gun with me? What am I, a cowboy or somethin'?


C'mon you know this is how you spend your weekends, don't lie!
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Nighthawk » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:09 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
Ryoto wrote:Ok if you want to get technical. Let's say they broke into your house.
Let's get untechnical and say that these reductive arguments about self defence which lead to an "either use the gun and kill them or die yourself" choice are ridiculous. I have been beaten by a group of thugs before in my life, it's no big deal.
:namaste:


No you think its ridiculous because you have no argument. I wish the world was sunshine and rainbows as well but its not and its sad to see you still living in a fantasy world even after (apparently) getting beaten up by thugs.
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:33 am

Ryoto wrote:No you think its ridiculous because you have no argument. I wish the world was sunshine and rainbows as well but its not and its sad to see you still living in a fantasy world even after (apparently) getting beaten up by thugs.
And your argument is plug them full of holes? Dude, you proposed the fantasy I rejected it. No need to get your knickers in a knot. Check your own mind before passing judgement on my mental state.
:namaste:
Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:35 am

wisdom wrote:C'mon you know this is how you spend your weekends, don't lie!

Guilty as charged! :tongue:
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"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Nighthawk » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:41 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
Ryoto wrote:No you think its ridiculous because you have no argument. I wish the world was sunshine and rainbows as well but its not and its sad to see you still living in a fantasy world even after (apparently) getting beaten up by thugs.
And your argument is plug them full of wholes? Dude, you proposed the fantasy I rejected it. No need to get your knickers in a knot. Check your own mind before passing judgement on my mental state.
:namaste:


Was it a fantasy to the victims who've been murdered due to break and enters?
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:43 am

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"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:44 am

Some stats, not all sources are provided but it's easy enough to find them.
There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000. The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides, with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.
Shooting the thug that dwells within!
A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in an unintentional shooting, a criminal assault or homicide, or an attempted or completed suicide than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.
Journal of Trauma, 1998
Oooops wrong thug!
Based on survey data from the U.S. Department of Justice, roughly 5,340,000 violent crimes were committed in the United States during 2008. These include simple/aggravated assaults, robberies, sexual assaults, rapes, and murders. Of these, about 436,000 or 8% were committed by offenders visibly armed with a gun.
What? No thugs with guns?
A 1997 survey of more than 18,000 prison inmates found that among those serving time for a violent crime, "30% of State offenders and 35% of Federal offenders carried a firearm when committing the crime."
Okay, some thugs with guns.
Nearly one-third of all women murdered in the United States in recent years were murdered by a current or former intimate partner. In 2000, 1,247 women, more than three a day, were killed by their intimate partners. Of females killed with a firearm, almost two-thirds were killed by their intimate partners.
My wife is a thug (shoot her!).
In the five years to 2007, 292 people died as the result of an assault. This was more than the 284 people who died from that cause in the five-year period 1998–2002, but considerably fewer than the 356 people who died from an assault in 1988–1992 ... Five-year average annual assault death rates for the period 2003–2007 were highest among adults aged 25–44 years (2.1 deaths per 100,000), followed by youth aged 15–24 years (1.9 per 100,000) and those aged 45–64 years (1.2 per 100,000). Children under 15 years and older people aged 65 years and over had the lowest rate (each 0.8 deaths per 100,000).
Oh, it looks like the thugs aren't gonna kill me after all, so what am I gonna do with this 0.45?
6.8% of mortalities worldwide are caused by unintentional injury, 2.84% by intentional injury (including war).
So shooting the thug by mistake has a higher chance of causing death than getting shot at by a homicidal maniac???
:shrug:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Guns?

Postby Jikan » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:51 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2HD9GnKYII

starting around 4:19

BANG BANG COPS AND ROBBERS
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