Use of the term 'Hīnayāna'

[muni]

What is your opinion ?
Should Hīnayāna continue to be used to refer to the Theravāda teachings or should it be avoided ?
Do you think the term is derogatory ?

Looks not an inspiration to use it. One maybe can call own being Hinayana as practice. Labeling!

Theravada-Mahayana (and....):
In general about traditions: "other" buddhist practices their appaerances can be seen as very uncomfortable as they disturb our own attachment to what is familiar to us. mind <=> appaerances. It feels as not correct and so protest/proving arises for protection of rightenesses = is a fighting anchor. And so lost in appaerances: aversions/attachments are owning 'us'.

In own grasping the cat forces a dog to miooooooooow. Mind <=> appaerances.

Only rambling.

[platypus]

The humble, modest vehicle :)

[muni]

"Mind".
No apprehended/imagined/created labels are the problem. Interdependence. While there is even no "one" who is breathing, just nature.

[daelm]

What is your opinion ?
Should Hīnayāna continue to be used to refer to the Theravāda teachings or should it be avoided ?
Do you think the term is derogatory ?

Is there any other convenient short hand to use to describe the non-Mahayana schools?

dzongsar khyentse rinpoche and others are using Shravakayana. there is no question that Hinayana is historically derogatory and was specifically intended to be so, fwiw.

So when these terms are used, they are not meant to be categories for ranking teachings overall (and this is the great Tibetan Buddhist hermeneutical error). Instead, the term hīnayāna should only be used with Mahāyāna audiences when the teacher in question is describing the inferiority of the desiring to attain the result of an arhat or a pratyekabuddha as opposed to full buddhahood.
N

yes. i've heard Ponlop Rinpoche explain the distinction as "views", held by individuals. that way, a person can be a Mahayana practitioner by affiliation and by practice type but a Hinayana practitioner by motivation or by view. it was quite humbling to realize that i was only an aspirant Mahayana practitioner most of the time.


d

[pemachophel]

I think it would be great if we could all stop using the words "Theravada" and "Theravadin" to refer to the Hinayana and its practitioners. As I believe it has been pointed out previously, "Theravada" is the proper name of one of the 18 schools of Hinayana. It is not a polite, politically correct name for the Hinayana as a whole. For instance, in Tibetan Buddhism, we receive our pratimoksha vows from (I believe) the Sarvastavada school, while the Theravada school dominated in Sri Lanka, Burma, Thailand, and Cambodia. I see no reason on the Tibetan Buddhism section of this forum to use this incorrect term. IMO, Mahayanists distinguishing themselves from Hinayanists should refer to the Hinayana as such. As Mahayanists we ourselves practice aspects of the Hinayana as our foundation. So we're not rejecting the Hinayana as much as we are adding something on top of it. For instance, when we take the five vows of a layperson, they come from the pratimoksha. We simply give them a Mahayana twist in terms of our motivation. As another example, Guru Rinpoche wears three sets of clothes, including the monk's robe of pratimoksha, symbolizing His training in all three yanas.

Wha'd'ya think?

[heart]

I think it would be great if we could all stop using the words "Theravada" and "Theravadin" to refer to the Hinayana and its practitioners. As I believe it has been pointed out previously, "Theravada" is the proper name of one of the 18 schools of Hinayana. It is not a polite, politically correct name for the Hinayana as a whole. For instance, in Tibetan Buddhism, we receive our pratimoksha vows from (I believe) the Sarvastavada school, while the Theravada school dominated in Sri Lanka, Burma, Thailand, and Cambodia. I see no reason on the Tibetan Buddhism section of this forum to use this incorrect term. IMO, Mahayanists distinguishing themselves from Hinayanists should refer to the Hinayana as such. As Mahayanists we ourselves practice aspects of the Hinayana as our foundation. So we're not rejecting the Hinayana as much as we are adding something on top of it. For instance, when we take the five vows of a layperson, they come from the pratimoksha. We simply give them a Mahayana twist in terms of our motivation. As another example, Guru Rinpoche wears three sets of clothes, including the monk's robe of pratimoksha, symbolizing His training in all three yanas.

Wha'd'ya think?

You are right, but hinayana doesn't seem to be so polite either.At least that is what I been told. You got an other suggestion?

/magnus

[Kare]

I think it would be great if we could all stop using the words "Theravada" and "Theravadin" to refer to the Hinayana and its practitioners. As I believe it has been pointed out previously, "Theravada" is the proper name of one of the 18 schools of Hinayana. It is not a polite, politically correct name for the Hinayana as a whole. For instance, in Tibetan Buddhism, we receive our pratimoksha vows from (I believe) the Sarvastavada school, while the Theravada school dominated in Sri Lanka, Burma, Thailand, and Cambodia. I see no reason on the Tibetan Buddhism section of this forum to use this incorrect term. IMO, Mahayanists distinguishing themselves from Hinayanists should refer to the Hinayana as such. As Mahayanists we ourselves practice aspects of the Hinayana as our foundation. So we're not rejecting the Hinayana as much as we are adding something on top of it. For instance, when we take the five vows of a layperson, they come from the pratimoksha. We simply give them a Mahayana twist in terms of our motivation. As another example, Guru Rinpoche wears three sets of clothes, including the monk's robe of pratimoksha, symbolizing His training in all three yanas.

Wha'd'ya think?

You are right, but hinayana doesn't seem to be so polite either.At least that is what I been told. You got an other suggestion?

/magnus

It is not polite at all, and it cannot be seen as right speech to say about any other person, contemporary or in history, that he is following hinayana. But I see no objection to someone using it as an internal stage in their own school. After all, if someone really wants to say "I'm following the lousy way", I do not see that as my problem ...

[Chaz]

It is not polite at all, and it cannot be seen as right speech to say about any other person, contemporary or in history, that he is following hinayana. But I see no objection to someone using it as an internal stage in their own school. After all, if someone really wants to say "I'm following the lousy way", I do not see that as my problem ...

I'm always a little torn on this subject.

On the one hand, I have no desire to offend, but on the other hand, if they can't handle a word, it seems to me to be their problem and not mine.

I currently work with this in a way that I avoid using the word Hinayana around Theravedins. This is fairly easy as I spend very little time around Theravedins. In my own Sangha I excercise no such constraint. My own guru uses the word liberally when speaking of those teachings. It's all over the study manuals he offers us to use in his study curriculum. And further, looking at Hinayana from a Mahayana perspective, it is the lesser of the two vehicles.

I also think that we place way to much importance on this subject. Discussions I had with some Theravedins give the impression that there are people outside there homes with signs reading HINAYANA and chanting the word over and over again. They also seem to think that the teachings and practices we might refer to as Hinayana is theirs by right (when it's not). I get so tired of it. It may be the reason why I don't hang with Theravedins. At all. Is it really that important that we expend so much energy in endless discussions and debates on the subject?

[pemachophel]

How 'bout Sravakayana? The Mahayana can also be called the Bodhisatvayana. Likewise, the Hinayana can also be called the Sravakayana. In this case, there is no concept of lesser or inferior. It is just the vehicle of a certain group of practitioners who accept certain teachings and not others. IOW, it is not pejorative or critical. IMO, it is a more neutral term.

[Dechen Norbu]

I don't mind using the term Shravakayana, but what's the problem? Do you think that in general they have the same consideration for Vajrayana? For them our teachings are seen as corruptions of the Dharma and we don't make such a big fuss about it. They could say: we don't know, but never have I heard a Theravadin considering Vajrayana anything but a corruption of the Dharma.
Usually when people talk about Hinayana, they are talking among Mahayanists. I never saw a Mahayanist saying like "these Hinayanists here, blah, blah"! So we call them Theravadins if they are present. If among ourselves we refer to that class of teachings as Hinayana, I don't see the problem. They have no motive to feel hurt. After all we are following a corrupt version of the pure Buddhadharma, so it's only natural that we make mistakes!

PS- I'm obviously joking. Just in case people assume otherwise. Shravakayana seems good enough. Or Theravada, in the appropriate context.

[heart]

I think it would be great if we could all stop using the words "Theravada" and "Theravadin" to refer to the Hinayana and its practitioners. As I believe it has been pointed out previously, "Theravada" is the proper name of one of the 18 schools of Hinayana. It is not a polite, politically correct name for the Hinayana as a whole. For instance, in Tibetan Buddhism, we receive our pratimoksha vows from (I believe) the Sarvastavada school, while the Theravada school dominated in Sri Lanka, Burma, Thailand, and Cambodia. I see no reason on the Tibetan Buddhism section of this forum to use this incorrect term. IMO, Mahayanists distinguishing themselves from Hinayanists should refer to the Hinayana as such. As Mahayanists we ourselves practice aspects of the Hinayana as our foundation. So we're not rejecting the Hinayana as much as we are adding something on top of it. For instance, when we take the five vows of a layperson, they come from the pratimoksha. We simply give them a Mahayana twist in terms of our motivation. As another example, Guru Rinpoche wears three sets of clothes, including the monk's robe of pratimoksha, symbolizing His training in all three yanas.

Wha'd'ya think?

You are right, but hinayana doesn't seem to be so polite either.At least that is what I been told. You got an other suggestion?

/magnus

It is not polite at all, and it cannot be seen as right speech to say about any other person, contemporary or in history, that he is following hinayana. But I see no objection to someone using it as an internal stage in their own school. After all, if someone really wants to say "I'm following the lousy way", I do not see that as my problem ...

Actually Kåre, hinayana means the small way and not the lousy way. It is small because it is concerned with attaining your own enlightenment. One might think that Vajrayana practitioners considers these teachings of little consequence, but that just isn't true. The Tripitaka and it's teachings have been preserved and practiced in Tibet for more than a thousand years.

/magnus

[LastLegend]

Voice hearer vehicle?

Way of the elders?

[pemachophel]

Dechen,

I personally have no problem with the term Hinayana and that's what I use. I was asked for an alternative; so I suggested Sravakayana. I'm just tired of seeing the terms Theravada/Theravadin incorrectly used on this forum. IMO, Hinayana should be called Hinayana. If that's not acceptable for reasons of political correctness, then I suggest Sravakayana, but not Theravada/Theravadin.

[Chaz]

I don't mind using the term Shravakayana, but what's the problem? Do you think that in general they have the same consideration for Vajrayana? For them our teachings are seen as corruptions of the Dharma and we don't make such a big fuss about it. They could say: we don't know, but never have I heard a Theravadin considering Vajrayana anything but a corruption of the Dharma.
Usually when people talk about Hinayana, they are talking among Mahayanists. I never saw a Mahayanist saying like "these Hinayanists here, blah, blah"! So we call them Theravadins if they are present. If among ourselves we refer to that class of teachings as Hinayana, I don't see the problem. They have no motive to feel hurt. After all we are following a corrupt version of the pure Buddhadharma, so it's only natural that we make mistakes!

PS- I'm obviously joking. Just in case people assume otherwise. Shravakayana seems good enough. Or Theravada, in the appropriate context.

I agree - Shravakayana is very appropriate.

Just occurred to me - I wonder if there's a word for "Common" yana? Anyone know enough sanskrit to translate? That might make some sense as all the traditions teach and practice it. We hold it in common. Kind of like the Four Thoughts That Turn The Mind To The Dharma, being refered to as The Four Common Preliminaries in the context of Ngondro practice. I like that. Neutral. Uplifted. Not offensive. Accurate. Could probably get away with Commonyana and forget the Sanskrit.

[Dechen Norbu]

Dechen,

I personally have no problem with the term Hinayana and that's what I use. I was asked for an alternative; so I suggested Sravakayana. I'm just tired of seeing the terms Theravada/Theravadin incorrectly used on this forum. IMO, Hinayana should be called Hinayana. If that's not acceptable for reasons of political correctness, then I suggest Sravakayana, but not Theravada/Theravadin.

That's what they call themselves. Means something like doctrine of the elders. Why would that be a bad label?
Or do you mean that when we talk about Hinayana schools we shouldn't refer Theravada as one of them, even if their doctrine is in fact Hinayana? Among Mahayanists I don't see the problem.

[dakini_boi]

You are right, but hinayana doesn't seem to be so polite either.At least that is what I been told. You got an other suggestion?

/magnus

Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche likes to refer to it as the "root vehicle." I think this is both respectful and accurate.

[Chaz]

You are right, but hinayana doesn't seem to be so polite either.At least that is what I been told. You got an other suggestion?

/magnus

Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche likes to refer to it as the "root vehicle." I think this is both respectful and accurate.

That works for me.

I've also heard "Foundation Vehicle" used.

[pemachophel]

Root vehicle, foundation vehicle, common vehicle all work for me in situations where politeness suggests avoiding the use of the word "Hinayana." Trust Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche to come up with an excellent solution to this problem.

[username]

I think it would be great if we could all stop using the words "Theravada" and "Theravadin" to refer to the Hinayana and its practitioners. As I believe it has been pointed out previously, "Theravada" is the proper name of one of the 18 schools of Hinayana. It is not a polite, politically correct name for the Hinayana as a whole. For instance, in Tibetan Buddhism, we receive our pratimoksha vows from (I believe) the Sarvastavada school, while the Theravada school dominated in Sri Lanka, Burma, Thailand, and Cambodia. I see no reason on the Tibetan Buddhism section of this forum to use this incorrect term. IMO, Mahayanists distinguishing themselves from Hinayanists should refer to the Hinayana as such. As Mahayanists we ourselves practice aspects of the Hinayana as our foundation. So we're not rejecting the Hinayana as much as we are adding something on top of it. For instance, when we take the five vows of a layperson, they come from the pratimoksha. We simply give them a Mahayana twist in terms of our motivation. As another example, Guru Rinpoche wears three sets of clothes, including the monk's robe of pratimoksha, symbolizing His training in all three yanas.

Wha'd'ya think?

That's what ChNNR said a few times as they're 1 sub-school of the 18 and as a school he said they are Hinayana and should be called so without hesitation or guilt or thinking too much about it as westerners often do. The studies of yanas in TB goes into details about all the major yanas, Hinayana Mahayana & Vajrayana, and why each is suprior to the one below. BTW whether in Sri Lanka or Thailand they are not shy and have institutional power and politics of varying shades and histories. I think there are more pressing and important things to worry about frankly for us TB practitioners.

[Kare]

Actually Kåre, hinayana means the small way and not the lousy way. It is small because it is concerned with attaining your own enlightenment.

Sorry, but you are mistaken. Read the documentation I have presented here: http://www.lienet.no/hinayan1.htm

One might think that Vajrayana practitioners considers these teachings of little consequence, but that just isn't true. The Tripitaka and it's teachings have been preserved and practiced in Tibet for more than a thousand years.

/magnus

It would be more correct to say that parts of the Tripitaka has been preserved in Tibet. Important texts from the Pali Canon, as for instance the Mahasatipatthanasutta, are not included in the Tibetan collections.