Buddhist Military Sangha (U.S.)

[mindyourmind]

I suppose the situation is far from being a simple black and white one, but I am going to vote with Greg on this one.

Personally I find it hard, if not impossible, to try to juggle the ideals, goals and vows of a practicing Buddhist with the voluntary military life. I cannot at the moment think of a single occupation in the army that I would be comfortable with. You are either a part of the machine or you support a part of the machine.

I also find no comfort in the twaddle that is the "just war" argument.

I was forced to spend two years in the army back in SA's apartheid years, but at that stage I was not a Buddhist, and I was only thinking of complying with the rules for the sake of my family and my career.

If I try very hard, I suppose I can try to build an argument for being a Buddhist chaplain in the army, and to then use your position to (a) assist people that may be injured or dying and (b) also to do some "missionary" work and to try and get people to turn their back on the military approach. Somehow that still feels a bit strained.

I would suggest that your first act after you join the Buddhist Military Sangha should be to leave the army

[Jikan]

I'm not in the US but I seriously doubt that young men can chose only between the military or crime.

You're correct on principle.

My point is rather that this is how the future is presented to many young people (particularly poor rural whites and "urban youth," which is code for poor blacks & Latinos). There is a scarcity of legitimate employment in the US for this segment of the population, and naturally, this is where the Friendly Recruiter makes his quota.

***

Most interesting to me about the Buddhist Military Sangha link I posted above is the emphasis on profession and professionalism. Military life is presented as a form of employment, a vocation, because this is how military life is understood by those who live it: it's a unique kind of job, to be sure, but it is in the last analysis a job. So it makes sense to me to look at this phenomenon in the context of professionalization and the penetration of mindfulness practice (understood as distinct from Buddhist practice) into the corporate world, health care, the academy, and so on.

[ronnewmexico]

Most of the comments of opposition...are from those outside the US.

Those outside the US I'd say you may not be familiar with things in the US. The wide wide disparity in incomes and living experiences.

Do your peoples all have water, electricity.....ours all do not.
Do yours all have health care if you get sick or ill....ours all do not. JObs in the US is how one gets health care.
Do yours all have ability to college education.....ours most all do not. Military is how the poor fund college like as not. Loan rates until very recently were under corporate control with high rates and no ability to renig on the loans.

Know that some areas of our country some by geography some by race some by education, some by age have unemployment rates approximating 50%.
Our official unemployment rates have been changed, so they do not reflect the real only who is recently unemployed...yours probably reflect the real.

Know that what you are hearing or seeing and the apparent affluence is not. Affluence in some things others not.
Sales of dog food in the US go up appreciably in the US in a recession. As result dog food is required to be fit for human consumption by law.
HOw is dog food in your country...are the peoples eating it? OUrs are.

I could go on and on. The income disparity in the US is one of the worst in the world.Per capita income is high as is 90% of the wealth held by 2% of the people. Bill GAtes MSFT held at one time assets equal to the bottom 40% of peoples in the US...all of them combined 40%.

I could go on and on.
Yeah things are bad in the EU right now, greece and all the rest. The retirement age in the US was never your age, ours is far higher. WE work longer hours for less comparative pay and far fewer days off and vacations and sick days things of that sort.
Medicare health care for seniors....they are attempting to cut it out, replace it with a bit of money, probably a tax credit.

Health care.....Veterans of the military all get it and mostly its for free.

Americans are under the misinformed impression by corporate propoganda that things are hunky dorey right here. Our health care situation is called the best in the world by these idiots of misinformation as per one example.
It was, american years ago after WW2 had something going for it...it's all gone.

So don't tell me these always you can find another job those military people are just greedy and such things.
YOu want healh care for your family you have little children, like as not walmart is not providing that....you join the military they do.
YOu want to go to college you have not the means in most states, you have family and cannot provide from income at McDonalds... nothing is aided....you go to the military they provide that.

Yes, it is a question of trade offs. Part of a killing machine that does much harm...certainly. LIke as not you're never in the front lines doing those things,but in the US shipping canned fruits or some things to other places.
Well that is moral indicisiveness....well how about all the US citizens who do nothing to stop the wars but enjoy the economic benefit...are they not worse?
There are no morally pure positons as human. We kill to eat every day. GRay it is and for some the reasonable choice is the military.

AS such sangha in military even better for those in that bad circumstance.

No offense but you all are not even very informed on the military. Courage to resist is one group consisting of those in the military who refuse to fight in unjust wars and others who hold their views. They are one of the main supporters of PFC Bradley Manning. ARE any high minded peoples donateing to them....to help them in their fight...I doubt it, most don't even know they exist. But large opinions on things they don't know a bit about they greatly expound.
Such things do exist in the military it is as mentioned above very much like any other profession.

REally to know this thing you need to know this thing.... US and the military the true not corporateased truth.

To my opinion anyone who has a shread of conscious as a american should google courage to resist and donate...but few will bother.
And why them then a sangha and them others not.
Vietnam....the military fighting peoples as much as anything took us out of Vietnam. Conscripts draftees sure, but not all, and still as military they did things and expressed view that ended that nightmare.
Suchly we can't blame the military or its members for the actions of its directors...the voting public in the US,that is who to blame .
They by my take are the not so innocent movers of the military in the US.
The military heinous thing it is..they just do what they are told.

Moral high ground...don't pay taxes. Go to jail for refusing to pay the amount of your taxes that go to military where ever you live....any buyers of that out there? NO.....to hard that. EAsier to point a finger of morality at this or that.
You by paying tax participate as they do. I admit I do, but do not deny some may be military and sangha they may utilize.
Jail I have been for fighting against war, more than once...have you?
Or expound only high ideals do you?

Bradley Manning of Vietnam...probably John Kerry. Old now corrupted lost his fight. Young then, no conscript won medals, threw them away.
WEnt to congress told them the truth of things in vietnam. WEnt to and joined groups against the war, military groups. Spoke here spoke there, devoted his life to it...he was a hero. MIlitary is not seperate or object only of the corruption that is war. In the US...it is the people who are the corruption by vast majority.

[gregkavarnos]

Well my dear Ron, if you want answers to your questions then take a short journey south over the border and see how the majority of people on this planet live. Of course Greece is not as bas as Mexico, but it ain't a bed of roses over here either, otherwise we would not have close to 100,000 people protesting every weekend outside of the houses of parliament in Athens!

If you want to, come and visit Athens and then come and visit me here in Lesbos, the difference is like that between hell and heaven.

Regardless of all this reality the (US) military is not a correct livelihood for Buddhists. Being poor is no excuse for going out and killing poorer people. No matter how you try to justify it. This is not to say that army personnal should not have access to spiritual support, but ultimately Buddhism is about right action and killing is not right action. Period. No matter what excuse you may attempt to drum up in support of killing or being part of a mechanism whose function is to kill.

[ronnewmexico]

The mhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_ ... anechanism to kill is called government and its means are taxation. So be on a higher moral ground...don't pay the portion of the taxes that go to defense.....
ARmies don't self deploy nor choose their targets.
In america it is the americans that choose what their government does. Thyer majority want this crap.

Mexico?....This week I'll be going out on the res. where there is no running water in places and no electricity, in Arizona. What's mexico got to do with it?
Mexico...my mother in law and all her family members in new mexico.....hauling water and generators is what it is...Mexico?

Wake up...this is america.

They forgot to include the res on your tourist literature....go figure.
About the same as american buddhists forgetting what was done, complaining about the communists in Tibet, forgetting what was done and is still done, by the capitalists in America not so very long ago..Mexico?

to add...there is no edict against armies in Buddhism. That has been debated and will be debated for years in places like this. Proof of the pudding....buddhist nations even Tibet back in the day...they have them. Check current and past history. Who serves in the Sri Lankan army.... hindu Tamils you think? no....don't think so.
You want no armies....maybe Jains, I'd guess to be a Jain you shouldn't be a soldier. Buddhist...no such restriction.
Here's a link...a link about the royal bhutan army....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Bhutan State religion of bhutan...vajrayana buddhism....go figure.

Tell me all about it.....

[gregkavarnos]

Mexico?....This week I'll be going out on the res. where there is no running water in places and no electricity, in Arizona. What's mexico got to do with it?
Mexico...my mother in law and all her family members in new mexico.....hauling water and generators is what it is...Mexico?

What was the last country the poor people of Mexico invaded militarily lately? Well...?

Ron you really keep the poor excuses comin' don't yah?

So here I go again! Get ready for them all to be shot down in flames (don't say I didn't warn you!)

In america it is the americans that choose what their government does. Thyer majority want this crap.

In the US big corporate interests choose what the government does. The majority have been bamboozled into believing they want this crap when in fact there are so many other (and better) things out there waiting for them.

They forgot to include the res on your tourist literature....go figure.

I was born in New Zealand and the the age of 16 my family and I moved to Australia. I know very well what the British did to the indigenous folks of those two countries. There are reservations in Australia too you know!? Recently I was in South Africa (one of my brothers lives there), the whole flippin' country is like a giant reserve. Huge proportions of the population there are disgustingly poor, but guess what? The only war carried out all this time was by the white apartheied government against Namibia.

About the same as american buddhists forgetting what was done, complaining about the communists in Tibet, forgetting what was done and is still done, by the capitalists in America not so very long ago..Mexico?

Here I can agree with you wholeheartedly. In Australia I saw lots of white liberals fighting this injustice and that injustice and remaining oblivious to the plight of the Aborigines. Gotta start at home!

to add...there is no edict against armies in Buddhism.

There are no edicts in Buddhism about driving at 120mph while playing video games on your ipad either. There are "edicts" against killing though aren't there? You agree?

Proof of the pudding....buddhist nations even Tibet back in the day...they have them. Check current and past history. Who serves in the Sri Lankan army.... hindu Tamils you think? no....don't think so.
You want no armies....maybe Jains, I'd guess to be a Jain you shouldn't be a soldier. Buddhist...no such restriction.
Here's a link...a link about the royal bhutan army....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Bhutan State religion of bhutan...vajrayana buddhism....go figure.

Not so hard to figure. Bhutan, Thailand, Burma, etc... are NATION STATES that happen to have Buddhism as their main religion. NATION STATES need armies to protect (and in some cases expand) their sphere of influence. In some countries they need the military/army for various ruling elites (Buddhists and non-) to maintain their stranglehold on the reins of power. This line of argumentation can be expanded to Christian nation states as well, coz Christ was pretty bloody clear about his position vis the use of force and violence. Let us not overlook one of human beings key traits in this equation: HYPOCRISY.

[Karma Dondrup Tashi]

The Five Precepts Observed by Lay Devotees

1. Abstaining from destroying life

2. Abstaining from taking what is not given

3. Abstaining from sexual misconduct

4. Abstaining from false speech

5. Abstaining from anything that causes intoxication or mindlessness

It would be interesting to learn how any Buddhists in the Armed Forces reconcile the Pratimoksha vows with their service or what any Buddhist chaplain would say about it.

I stumbled upon these articles:

JOINT BASE LEWIS-MCCHORD, Wash., May 12, 2011 -- Of all the branch insignia on uniforms at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Wash., one stands out for a unique reason.

Chaplain (Capt.) Somya Malasri's dharma wheel is one of the most uncommon symbols in the military. He is the first, and currently only, active-duty Buddhist chaplain in the Army.

http://www.army.mil/article/56452/JBLM_Soldier_first__only_active_duty_Buddhist_chaplain_in_Army/

D.F.: What draws you to military chaplaincy?

S.M.: For one thing, I want very much to help Buddhist soldiers. For Christians in the U.S. Army, there are a lot of chaplains. But there are no Buddhist chaplains yet for Buddhist soldiers in the Army. I’d like to share the knowledge I have gained so far with those soldiers. Maybe I can help them in their spiritual training or their practice of meditation. I could offer advice about how to be a good Buddhist and a good soldier at the same time. Personally, I also just like to help other people. Sometimes when people are suffering, they don’t have anyone to talk with. I can be a person who can listen to them and guide them.

http://dannyfisher.org/2008/04/30/interview-2lt-rev-somya-malasri/

Malasri has an interesting take on the apparent contradiction of a Buddhist Chaplain/Soldier — a religion stereotypically “peaceful.”

He says he gets asked a lot how he balances being a leader of a famously peaceful religion and being in the armed services. For him, even the least aggressive of people must be able to defend themselves, their property and their rights.

“If you don’t have a Soldier, you don’t have freedom to practice your own religion,” he said.

He also gives an insight into the unique relativism of some eastern religions, as compared to faith systems which claim an ultimate truth (including all three Abrahamic faiths):

“We cannot have only one religion,” he explained. “For example, we have five fingers. They’re all different (but they all work together).”

http://christianfighterpilot.com/blog/2011/05/17/buddhist-chaplain-celebrates-vesak/#more-11163

[ronnewmexico]

In Buddhism there are conflicting things stated. There are many ways to determine what is said what is considered priority and what is not. What is considered to apply or not is depending upon context and correct application of what was stated.
That is how buddhist armies are allowed for in buddhist thought. There have been soldiers who are buddhist for I'd guess more than 1500 years.
Five precepts.....I know all buddhist engage in defilements of the five precepts daily, to include myself. I kill every day to eat, quite intentionally. I have killed quite intentionall and for fun as a child.
I may join sangha and be buddhist.

Monastic...no, I'd say most draw the line at that. Within scripture can be found enough that states monastic should not be military.
I'd say to be a holder of lineage and to be in the army as a chaplin even....by my take, not a good thing to do. I could probably support that if I had the time and energy to devote.

G....shot down in flames, you must be joking. A rehash of what is stated a bit and a changing of posiiton a bit is what it is.

I have established poverty in america is present and purvasive in certain populations in this specific the natives of america. YOu now seem to agree.
Drawn from that is conclusion that some, may have to join a army to get basic things found not present in america but present in other nations, basic things such as health care. You refute not that.

You state nation states establishe armies for various reasons...that is absolutely true.
If the establishment of nation states since nation states always include armies were not found to be occuring as perhaps don't occur Jainist nation states we could assume that the religion prevents their arising.
Such is not so...buddhist nation states and armies abound and have for centuries.
You are refuted on that basis.

Corporations run the american government, that's fact. What is not fact is that ameicans because of the media propoganda and misrepresentation are not responsible for the heinous things their government does. I know they can know. You know they can know. They want only to engage in self indulgence(a minutes look at their prime time TV roster shows that) as opposed to anything with purpose or meaning. So they are not as charged because some propogandistic media lies to them?

So now, the military, those who so engage, are more responsible for things than their motivators, the american peoples......absurd is that contention.
Americans...they want these wars so they can stuff their fat bellies even fatter and fill the world with their type of domination eating all.
No army is responsible for what this thing is...its heart is greed the kind that eats and eats even when completely full.
REmove that and the army...it becomes a thing of good. A stepping in in Hitsu Titsu killing, a stepping in in Somalia or Sudan warlords killings of innoncents, things of that sort they may do and be good by effect. Force is necessary and the best options in rare but present situations. Such is why buddhism does not prevent the existance of nation states nor armies that accompany them. Idi Amin, a army to step in and stop his killings of others and eating their hearts(yes that is what he would do)....yes probably a better option.

It is not the army it is who directs the army.
Tell them then all the americans who do nothing....you should not have sangha nor be buddhsit until you change your ways.
If I was standing on higher ground I would say that thing. I am not so I don't not to armies nor to any peoples.

The core of this thing anyway you slice it..american peoples.
You again address not the contention with sufficiency and a neutral party would have difficulty stated that is so.
ARguments may be out there(or not) you have not presented a cohesive nor purvasive one one this issue.

REally G if you want to correctly address this issue address my contentions, or if not bring something new to the table.
This here this last response.....not much.

It revolves generally aroung this, this thing of army and most(but not all) wars.....

WE can't blame soldiers for holding the view their masters of war do. They being in greater need and really like as not missing that thing not just feeling they are. AS those who vote for wars generally just feel they lack that thing. Those are the killers no less they than their pawns.

[gregkavarnos]

In Buddhism there are conflicting things stated. There are many ways to determine what is said what is considered priority and what is not. What is considered to apply or not is depending upon context and correct application of what was stated.

Nah! I think you'll find that its pretty clear, it's just ego that doesn't let us apply them.

That is how buddhist armies are allowed for in buddhist thought. There have been soldiers who are buddhist for I'd guess more than 1500 years.

And there have been rapists and thieves and ... for more than 1500 years, so obviously Buddhism has no problem with that either?!

Five precepts.....I know all buddhist engage in defilements of the five precepts daily, to include myself. I kill every day to eat, quite intentionally. I have killed quite intentionall and for fun as a child.
I may join sangha and be buddhist.

Forget what I mentioned about hypocrisy?

I have established poverty in america is present and purvasive in certain populations in this specific the natives of america. YOu now seem to agree.
Drawn from that is conclusion that some, may have to join a army to get basic things found not present in america but present in other nations, basic things such as health care. You refute not that.

Of course not, I just refute the idea that this somehow justifies their actions. It doesn't. Karma is karma, the outcomes will be forthcoming.

You state nation states establishe armies for various reasons...that is absolutely true.
If the establishment of nation states since nation states always include armies were not found to be occuring as perhaps don't occur Jainist nation states we could assume that the religion prevents their arising.

Ummmm... no, we can't just assume that. We could assume that Jains never had enough economic and political powqer in order to establish a nation state, that would be a little more logical. Also the facts that nations with standing armies preexisted the advent of Buddhism tends to nullify your theory.

Corporations run the american government, that's fact. What is not fact is that ameicans because of the media propoganda and misrepresentation are not responsible for the heinous things their government does. I know they can know. You know they can know. They want only to engage in self indulgence(a minutes look at their prime time TV roster shows that) as opposed to anything with purpose or meaning. So they are not as charged because some propogandistic media lies to them?

I agree that they are not purified of their sins, but (imposed) ignorance does play a large role.

So now, the military, those who so engage, are more responsible for things than their motivators, the american peoples......absurd is that contention.
Americans...they want these wars so they can stuff their fat bellies even fatter and fill the world with their type of domination eating all.
No army is responsible for what this thing is...its heart is greed the kind that eats and eats even when completely full.
REmove that and the army...it becomes a thing of good. A stepping in in Hitsu Titsu killing, a stepping in in Somalia or Sudan warlords killings of innoncents, things of that sort they may do and be good by effect. Force is necessary and the best options in rare but present situations. Such is why buddhism does not prevent the existance of nation states nor armies that accompany them. Idi Amin, a army to step in and stop his killings of others and eating their hearts(yes that is what he would do)....yes probably a better option.

Enlightenment, the best option!

WE can't blame soldiers for holding the view their masters of war do. They being in greater need and really like as not missing that thing not just feeling they are. AS those who vote for wars generally just feel they lack that thing. Those are the killers no less they than their pawns.

It's got nothing to do with blame and everything to do with personal responsibility.

[ronnewmexico]

ego
rapists
hypocracy
karma
Jains
purified sins
enlightenment
personal responsibility

The personal responsibility of a soldier is to soldier. The personal responsibilty of a citizen in a democracy is to be informed and assist in the process to provide correct direction to the government which expresses upon thier foreign policy and the acts of their military.

You've got it backasswards.....the american citizen is equally responsible compared to any hapless sad sack soldier. Probably more so, but I's personally say equal.

[gregkavarnos]

ego
rapists
hypocracy
karma
Jains
purified sins
enlightenment
personal responsibility

The personal responsibility of a soldier is to soldier. The personal responsibilty of a citizen in a democracy is to be informed and assist in the process to provide correct direction to the government which expresses upon thier foreign policy and the acts of their military.

You've got it backasswards.....the american citizen is equally responsible compared to any hapless sad sack soldier. Probably more so, but I's personally say equal.

Each individual is responsible for their own actions of body speech and mind. That is what Buddhism teaches us. It's got nothing to do with more, equal or less. It's got everything to do with our intentional actions. The citizen will undergo the consequences of their actions, the soldier for theirs, the politician for theirs, etc... It's that simple.

[ronnewmexico]

Yes...its that simple in that we are all exactly equal.

All are then thusly considered equal before dharma in dharma and with dharma.

Probably distracted to many posts to attend to...you make my point....thanks.
NIce talking to you.

[mzaur]

I plan on (and hopefully will) join the US military. My goal is to serve as an officer and psychologist. I can retire after 20 years with a healthy pension and then I won't have to work anymore and can fully dedicate my life to practice. During those 20 years, I think I can do a lot of good. As a psychologist, I'll be treating people who really do need help, and I'll also be able to infuse some dharma into my therapy and hopefully teach meditation on base as well. It's a pretty good plan I think, and I'm looking forward to it

[gregkavarnos]

I'm thinking of joining the Taliban (probably the Pakistani wing). My goal is to serve as a commander of a small unit and a spiritual counsellor (mufti). I will probably die within five years, but at least I know there will a crew of virgins waiting for me in paradise. I won't have to work anymore and can spend my the rest of my afterlife getting laid in new and exciting ways. During those five years I think I can do a lot of good. As a spiritual counsellor I'll be advising people who really do need help, and I'll also be able to infuse some dharma (truth) into my counselling and hopefully teach sufi whirling techniques in the village as well. It's a pretty good plan I think, and I'm looking forward to it.

[edearl]

The US military has jobs for conscientious objectors (non-violent people), such as doctors, dentists, medics and hospital administrators, who actually help people instead of kill or help others kill. And, throughout history lessons learned by medical people treating the wounded has improved medical treatment.

I personally wish the US military were much much smaller and stayed within the US. Ideally, all the world would be non-violent, but that will not happen in my life time.

[Ogyen]

I'm thinking of joining the Taliban (probably the Pakistani wing). My goal is to serve as a commander of a small unit and a spiritual counsellor (mufti). I will probably die within five years, but at least I know there will a crew of virgins waiting for me in paradise. I won't have to work anymore and can spend my the rest of my afterlife getting laid in new and exciting ways. During those five years I think I can do a lot of good. As a spiritual counsellor I'll be advising people who really do need help, and I'll also be able to infuse some dharma (truth) into my counselling and hopefully teach sufi whirling techniques in the village as well. It's a pretty good plan I think, and I'm looking forward to it.

if I only eat meat by-products, I can be vegetarian. It's not really meat, after all.


D. Ogyen

[ElSexyBuda]

Most of the comments of opposition...are from those outside the US.

As a veteran of the US Army, I often see the military in a differnt way then those who had never donned the uniform of a US soldier. There had been a time I would tell people that the US military wasn't as bad as thought to be. There were, in my opion, many advantages to being a member of the military, a good education in a field that is suited for each person's abilities with the potential of using that knowledge after military life, possiblities of endless travel, oppurtunity to do and see things that wouldn't occur in normal everyday civlian life, fulltime lifelong carreer if you would so choose, strong physical conditioning, self condifence and self reliance are only some of the advantages I once thought were worth the cost of taking the oath of US soldier. It had been at least a decade since I last uttered those words in a conversation with the intent on informing people what the military actually had to offer, and I never will do so again in this lifetime. I had been a proud soldier, a proud American soldier, with good intentions about helping those who were unable to help themselves. My M.O.S. was that of soldier in a field that most didn't want to do, due to the idea that the life expectancy was about 2mins and 45secs after first shot fired, something the recruiter convientently seemed to leave out, live and learn... Some of the days I had spent in the military were, to put it mildly, hectic at times, but by my own choosing to be there. Now knowing I had been a part of things that have since come to be public knowledge, and to my own, with not the best reception once known to the public and myself, makes it difficult for me to even say I was a patriotic member of the M.I.C., hard words to even write down.

The arguement that US military is global force of good, is lost on me, since I see the politics that surround the American military along with the manufactuers of disposable items such as weapons and ammunition that lobby D.C.ers to continue to buy and use their products. Weapon manufactuers, the tainted American political system, the so-called patroitic need for American dominance and exceptionalsim, all is within iteself a perpetual modern day machine of death and destruction.

I plan on (and hopefully will) join the US military. My goal is to serve as an officer and psychologist. I can retire after 20 years with a healthy pension and then I won't have to work anymore and can fully dedicate my life to practice. During those 20 years, I think I can do a lot of good. As a psychologist, I'll be treating people who really do need help, and I'll also be able to infuse some dharma into my therapy and hopefully teach meditation on base as well. It's a pretty good plan I think, and I'm looking forward to it

Mzaur, if you are looking to treat people who really do need help, why not go to one of the countless countries where people have zero access to mental health care instead of weapons repair?


What is to come, stands upon what had been.
Can you live with having had been a part of the USMIC?

FYI, it isn't that easy.


Here are just a few highlights of the modern USMIC in case they had been missed.

Black prisons and prison ships.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8674179.stm
http://my.firedoglake.com/valtin/2011/0 ... n-program/

Enhanced interrogation techniques, aka torture.
http://thinkprogress.org/report/why-enh ... on-failed/

Groups of overly enthusiastic gun toting kill teams. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... m-20110327

Drone strikes/murders.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/204715.html

The USMIC ia creating more Mr./Mrs. I Hate Americans, than ever before.

[Malcolm]

I also see this hyperconservatism in... Massachusetts ..."

Maybe the Massachusetts in some alternate universe, but not in the Massachusetts I live in. Of course, I am merely 15 miles from the VT border as the crow flies (go bernie!).

[Silent Bob]

I'm thinking of joining the Taliban (probably the Pakistani wing). My goal is to serve as a commander of a small unit and a spiritual counsellor (mufti). I will probably die within five years, but at least I know there will a crew of virgins waiting for me in paradise. I won't have to work anymore and can spend my the rest of my afterlife getting laid in new and exciting ways. During those five years I think I can do a lot of good. As a spiritual counsellor I'll be advising people who really do need help, and I'll also be able to infuse some dharma (truth) into my counselling and hopefully teach sufi whirling techniques in the village as well. It's a pretty good plan I think, and I'm looking forward to it.

I'm thinking you might just have the excitable temperament required for that club.

[gregkavarnos]

And I'm thinking that you are missing the point, ie that the two clubs, Taliban and USMIC, are actually very, very, similar and require the exact same excitable tempermant from their members.

Anyway, I would never join a club that would accept somebody like me as one of their members!

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