Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

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Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

Postby Enochian » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:58 pm

Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

:rolleye: :hi:
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Enochian
 
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Re: Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:10 pm

Enochian wrote:Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

:rolleye: :hi:



No.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
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Re: Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

Postby Enochian » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:40 pm

Whats the difference?
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Enochian
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

Postby adinatha » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:51 pm

Jhana has subtle conceptual focus. Clear light of sleep is the dharmakaya.
CAW!
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Re: Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

Postby Enochian » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:14 pm

Thats what I thought until I read part of this book online:

Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond by Ajahn Brahm

He basically uses nonconceptual bliss like Vajrayana. For God's sake Bliss is in the title LOL
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Enochian
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:27 pm

Enochian wrote:Thats what I thought until I read part of this book online:

Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond by Ajahn Brahm

He basically uses nonconceptual bliss like Vajrayana. For God's sake Bliss is in the title LOL


No, that is not possible.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10163
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

Postby Enochian » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:43 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Enochian wrote:Thats what I thought until I read part of this book online:

Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond by Ajahn Brahm

He basically uses nonconceptual bliss like Vajrayana. For God's sake Bliss is in the title LOL


No, that is not possible.



I don't know if you have access to this book, but you can read part of it online.

Bliss is the main focus of the book, without a doubt.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Enochian
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:48 pm

Enochian wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Enochian wrote:Thats what I thought until I read part of this book online:

Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond by Ajahn Brahm

He basically uses nonconceptual bliss like Vajrayana. For God's sake Bliss is in the title LOL


No, that is not possible.



I don't know if you have access to this book, but you can read part of it online.

Bliss is the main focus of the book, without a doubt.


It's not the same kind of bliss.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10163
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

Postby Enochian » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:50 pm

Namdrol wrote:It's not the same kind of bliss.

N



Because its not from within the center channel / avadhuti?
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Enochian
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:51 pm

Enochian wrote:
Namdrol wrote:It's not the same kind of bliss.

N



Because its not from within the center channel?


Because it is not physical.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10163
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

Postby Enochian » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:14 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Enochian wrote:
Namdrol wrote:It's not the same kind of bliss.

N



Because its not from within the center channel?


Because it is not physical.

N



Because its mental?

But you yourself said the mind was merely a physical wind in the physical body.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Enochian
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:19 pm

Enochian wrote:
Because its mental?

.


Because it is not grounded in a physical sensation.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10163
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

Postby Enochian » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:22 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Enochian wrote:
Because its mental?

.


Because it is not grounded in a physical sensation.



I think you can't give full detail because of samaya, so I concede.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Enochian
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:34 pm

Enochian wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Enochian wrote:
Because its mental?

.


Because it is not grounded in a physical sensation.



I think you can't give full detail because of samaya, so I concede.


No, it is not that, it is that meditative bliss is not bliss grounded in a physical sensation, therefore, one will never realize mahāmudra.

The Hevajra tantra states:

Where does bliss come from without the existence of the body?
Such a bliss cannot be described.
Bliss pervades all migrating beings
in the form of pervaded and pervader;
just as the fragrance present in a flower
cannot be known without the flower’s existence;
in the same way, since form and so on won’t exist,
also bliss itself won’t be perceived.


The embodiment of bliss is a fundamental point in Vajrayāna. This is yet another reason Vajrayāna methods are faster and more profound.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10163
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

Postby Enochian » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:57 pm

I understand this.

But earlier you made it seem like EVERYTHING is physical anyway i.e. the mind is merely a physical wind and even the highest level non-Buddha beings have subtle bodies made of subtle material


You only leave physicality at the rainbow body level
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Enochian
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm


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