Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

[Enochian]

Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

[Malcolm]

Does Clear Light of Sleep = Jhana?

No.

[Enochian]

Whats the difference?

[adinatha]

Jhana has subtle conceptual focus. Clear light of sleep is the dharmakaya.

[Enochian]

Thats what I thought until I read part of this book online:

Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond by Ajahn Brahm

He basically uses nonconceptual bliss like Vajrayana. For God's sake Bliss is in the title LOL

[Malcolm]

Thats what I thought until I read part of this book online:

Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond by Ajahn Brahm

He basically uses nonconceptual bliss like Vajrayana. For God's sake Bliss is in the title LOL

No, that is not possible.

[Enochian]

Thats what I thought until I read part of this book online:

Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond by Ajahn Brahm

He basically uses nonconceptual bliss like Vajrayana. For God's sake Bliss is in the title LOL

No, that is not possible.

I don't know if you have access to this book, but you can read part of it online.

Bliss is the main focus of the book, without a doubt.

[Malcolm]

Thats what I thought until I read part of this book online:

Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond by Ajahn Brahm

He basically uses nonconceptual bliss like Vajrayana. For God's sake Bliss is in the title LOL

No, that is not possible.

I don't know if you have access to this book, but you can read part of it online.

Bliss is the main focus of the book, without a doubt.

It's not the same kind of bliss.

N

[Enochian]

It's not the same kind of bliss.

N

Because its not from within the center channel / avadhuti?

[Malcolm]

It's not the same kind of bliss.

N

Because its not from within the center channel?

Because it is not physical.

N

[Enochian]

It's not the same kind of bliss.

N

Because its not from within the center channel?

Because it is not physical.

N

Because its mental?

But you yourself said the mind was merely a physical wind in the physical body.

[Malcolm]

Because its mental?

.

Because it is not grounded in a physical sensation.

[Enochian]

Because its mental?

.

Because it is not grounded in a physical sensation.

I think you can't give full detail because of samaya, so I concede.

[Malcolm]

Because its mental?

.

Because it is not grounded in a physical sensation.

I think you can't give full detail because of samaya, so I concede.

No, it is not that, it is that meditative bliss is not bliss grounded in a physical sensation, therefore, one will never realize mahāmudra.

The Hevajra tantra states:

Where does bliss come from without the existence of the body?
Such a bliss cannot be described.
Bliss pervades all migrating beings
in the form of pervaded and pervader;
just as the fragrance present in a flower
cannot be known without the flower’s existence;
in the same way, since form and so on won’t exist,
also bliss itself won’t be perceived.

The embodiment of bliss is a fundamental point in Vajrayāna. This is yet another reason Vajrayāna methods are faster and more profound.

N

[Enochian]

I understand this.

But earlier you made it seem like EVERYTHING is physical anyway i.e. the mind is merely a physical wind and even the highest level non-Buddha beings have subtle bodies made of subtle material


You only leave physicality at the rainbow body level