"On White Women and Buddhism"

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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby daelm » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:54 pm

Huifeng wrote:Hello Dael,

Thank you for your well considered reply.

<snip>

Change of policy? Hardly.

~~ Huifeng



Hello Huifeng

No problem. I think that confusion can always be cleared up with considered replies.

I understood the policy change that Astus originally asked about to be at Nan Hua (FGS) in South Africa. Hence the discussion. It's good to know you're making such strides elsewhere.

regards


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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby Karma K Sonam » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:43 pm

I used to get Tricycle. Not anymore. It smacked of being full of "beautiful" people (invariably white), adverts for expensive goods and was achingly middle class.

It IS good to see however that the boys have hijacked a thread about Asian woman to thrash out their own disagreements.

Oh the irony....
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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby conebeckham » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:13 am

Oh, I dunno...the ads in Tricycle had lots of Asian women.....in yoga pants and outfits. That's what I recall, at least.
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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby daelm » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:05 am

Karma K Sonam wrote:I used to get Tricycle. Not anymore. It smacked of being full of "beautiful" people (invariably white), adverts for expensive goods and was achingly middle class.

It IS good to see however that the boys have hijacked a thread about Asian woman to thrash out their own disagreements.

Oh the irony....



:) lol.

the orginal post went as follows:

"Do you agree with her points that major Buddhist publications like Tricycle, Shambala Sun, and Buddhadharma systematically ignore the Asian-American Buddhist community?"

the thread's actually not about Asian women, but about the relationship between Asian-American Buddhist community and the Western Buddhist community (as far as the latter is exemplified by Tricycle magazine and its equivalents). i think, if i remember right, there was a loose consensus that Tricycle did not strictly represent Western Buddhism, but was better understood as a commercial enterprise hoping to appeal to a western audience, in the same way that magazines about fly-fishing bias their presentation towards a specific demographic.

along the way, though, a few interesting things were raised about a more fundamental juxtaposition, that perhaps underlay the original discussion, namely that of ethnic Asian institutional Buddhism and the developing Western institutional Buddhism. so the discussion of "relationship" expanded naturally to include Asian Buddhist communities not specifically Asian-American, and from that became a discussion about how Asian and Western Buddhist communities relate to each other in general. in that respect, the relationship between FGS (which is perhaps the most explicitly missionary of the ethnic institutional entities) and it's host countries came up.

hope that helps.


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Last edited by daelm on Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby Karma K Sonam » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:15 pm

:emb:
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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby rory » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:29 am

But this brings up a good point, that is a definite problem for me; the sexist character of Buddhism that is unhappily reinforced by cultural influences such as Confucianism etc... Sometimes as a woman I've think I've had enough of men being in charge, disparaging women & that it's hopeless. I really couldn't take FGS locally because of that & additionally I'm gay.... I belong to a Japanese Pure Land sect that's been in America for at least 3 gens, so that helps enormously.
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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby gyougan » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:45 am

rory wrote:But this brings up a good point, that is a definite problem for me; the sexist character of Buddhism that is unhappily reinforced by cultural influences such as Confucianism etc... Sometimes as a woman I've think I've had enough of men being in charge, disparaging women & that it's hopeless. I really couldn't take FGS locally because of that & additionally I'm gay.... I belong to a Japanese Pure Land sect that's been in America for at least 3 gens, so that helps enormously.
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That men are in charge is an illusion. Behind the scenes, women hold considerable power.
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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby rory » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:16 am

In what groups? And 'behind the scenes' ? Are we women 2nd class citizens?
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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby Huifeng » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:28 am

Rory,

Was the FGS center you went to run by an Abbess or an Abbot?
A lot of FGS both in Taiwan and abroad is run by nuns, not at all "behind the scenes".

And, if I may, were you actually deliberately and explicitly disadvantaged due to sexual orientation?

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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby gyougan » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:48 pm

rory wrote:Are we women 2nd class citizens?


No. But judging from your posts it seems that you think that you women are 2nd class citizens. I simply meant that women often have the power to control their husbands. At least here where I live.

Being at the top of society - being part of the ruling elite - is not easy. Most men don't have what it takes to handle all that terrible stress. And I think that even less women have that capability. Or even the willingness to be at the very top of society. Seriously, how many women want to work 70 hours a week?

EDIT: And how many have the stamina to actually do it?
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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby Karma K Sonam » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:34 pm

Woo hoo, here we go

As my school students often say to me "chill your beans"! Lol
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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby daelm » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:02 pm

gyougan wrote:
rory wrote:Are we women 2nd class citizens?


No. But judging from your posts it seems that you think that you women are 2nd class citizens. I simply meant that women often have the power to control their husbands. At least here where I live.

Being at the top of society - being part of the ruling elite - is not easy. Most men don't have what it takes to handle all that terrible stress. And I think that even less women have that capability. Or even the willingness to be at the very top of society. Seriously, how many women want to work 70 hours a week?

EDIT: And how many have the stamina to actually do it?



hi gyougan

your comment contains a wealth of underlying assumptions. too many to go into here, and way off topic, unfortunately. maybe it would help if you read this: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

regards

d


:focus:
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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby mindyourmind » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:51 pm

daelm wrote:
gyougan wrote:
rory wrote:Are we women 2nd class citizens?


No. But judging from your posts it seems that you think that you women are 2nd class citizens. I simply meant that women often have the power to control their husbands. At least here where I live.

Being at the top of society - being part of the ruling elite - is not easy. Most men don't have what it takes to handle all that terrible stress. And I think that even less women have that capability. Or even the willingness to be at the very top of society. Seriously, how many women want to work 70 hours a week?

EDIT: And how many have the stamina to actually do it?



hi gyougan

your comment contains a wealth of underlying assumptions. too many to go into here, and way off topic, unfortunately. maybe it would help if you read this: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

regards

d


:focus:



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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby Virgo » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:06 pm

conebeckham wrote:Oh, I dunno...the ads in Tricycle had lots of Asian women.....in yoga pants and outfits. That's what I recall, at least.

Oh we already know why you bought the mag, Cone. You didn't have to tell us. :lol:

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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby conebeckham » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:58 pm

ha ha!
:smile:

Hey, I bought it for the ARTICLES, and the COLUMNS, yeah...not just for the pictures...that's right.....uh huh....
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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby Virgo » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:02 pm

conebeckham wrote:ha ha!
:smile:

Hey, I bought it for the ARTICLES, and the COLUMNS, yeah...not just for the pictures...that's right.....uh huh....

Rofl Cone.

:D

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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby rory » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:05 am

Great, so while we are having a serious discussion of women's 2nd class status for millennia in Buddhism, you're discussing buying Tricycle to sexually stare at the Asian female models.
Great, female sexual trafficking is big in India, Nepal etc where young girls are purchased, raped & discarded, many times left suffering with HIV, just for men's transient sexual pleasure. Proud of yourselves?
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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby Virgo » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:12 am

rory wrote:Great, so while we are having a serious discussion of women's 2nd class status for millennia in Buddhism, you're discussing buying Tricycle to sexually stare at the Asian female models.
Great, female sexual trafficking is big in India, Nepal etc where young girls are purchased, raped & discarded, many times left suffering with HIV, just for men's transient sexual pleasure. Proud of yourselves?
rory

That doesn't mean I can't find a woman attractive, or make a joke about it. Sorry, but can't change nature. I do apologize if it hurt your feelings in any way, that certainly was not the intention.

Have a nice day.

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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby Jikan » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:53 pm

Golly, did this thread ever get weird.
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Re: "On White Women and Buddhism"

Postby daelm » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:27 pm

Jikan wrote:Golly, did this thread ever get weird.


multiple hijackings :)

can we maybe get a separate thread for the gender discussion?

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