Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby Tenzin1 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:22 am

As a rabbi or holy man, Jesus, according to custom, would have been expected to be married. Some say Mary Magdalene was his wife. Due to religious orthodoxy, we may never know for certain.
The Moravians practiced tantric sex, and had some influence on other Christian sects in that regard, in the 1700-1800's. Judaism also had an esoteric "spiritual sex" practice at one time. The raising of the Kundalini (the goal of tantric practice) is a pan-human practice that dates back eons. The Kalahari Bushmen call it "num", and use the energy in healing practices.
The Tibetan Buddhist monks and teachers, from a historical comparative religion perspective, aren't the only ones to have (or have had) consorts and practice tantra.
The Kundalini (tummo) is a potential blessing to humanity, if used wisely and responsibly. According to Gopi Krishna, it is humanity's evolutionary destiny.
Tenzin1
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:36 am

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby adinatha » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:38 am

Tummo is not kundalini yoga. It utilizes kundalini energy. But it is a different view, practice and fruit. It is part of Mahamudra, which is particular to Buddhism.
CAW!
User avatar
adinatha
 
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:07 am

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby Adamantine » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:42 am

There's an orgiastic Christian tradition known in Russia as Khlysty, in which groups of men and women congregate and copulate, with one man embodying the "christ", and possibly one of the women likewise embodying the holy mother. It is said that Rasputin was initiated into this tradition, but this history is not certain.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
User avatar
Adamantine
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby Tenzin1 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:11 pm

Adamantine wrote:There's an orgiastic Christian tradition known in Russia as Khlysty, in which groups of men and women congregate and copulate, with one man embodying the "christ", and possibly one of the women likewise embodying the holy mother. It is said that Rasputin was initiated into this tradition, but this history is not certain.
What a fascinating post, Adamantine! It sounds like a Christianization of the old pagan fertility ceremonies that got stamped out by the Orthodox Church. Except...maybe they didn't get entirely stamped out, but just morphed into a form of Christianity. I'm going to research this, thanks!

Adinatha: I know Kundalini Yoga and tantra are two different things. But they both use the Kundalini energy, "Kunda" or "tummo" as the Tibetans call it. The goal of visualization or practice of tantric sex is to raise the Kundalini, aka the Inner Fire, as a device to bring on a bliss state, which the tradition considers to be equal to Enlightenment. In Europe, the practice was used by mystical branches of Christian sects, according to what I've read.
Tenzin1
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:36 am

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby Jikan » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:40 pm

bracketing the question of Buddhism's relation to all this (capably answered already in this thread)...

If you're interested in the intersection between Christianity and Shaktism ("kundalini yoga"), check these people out (a living tradition):

www.sno.org
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4285
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby Indrajala » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:57 pm

This is a really weird thread and if it continues I hope participants be reasonable and cite their sources.
Flower Ornament Depository (Blog)
Indrajāla's Contemplations (Blog)
Exploring Classical Chinese (Blog)
Dharma Depository (Site)

"Hui gives me no assistance. There is nothing that I say in which he does not delight." -Confucius
User avatar
Indrajala
Former staff member
 
Posts: 5563
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: India

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby fragrant herbs » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:00 pm

I think it would be hard to prove whether Jesus practiced the tantras or not. There is nothing in the Bible or the Gnostic gospels that talks about it, at least I don't think there is. But he did travel close with women and he did drink and dine with the prostitutes, but that may mean nothing more than what the Christians believe it means. But then he talked about the Bride of Christ. Interesting subject though.
User avatar
fragrant herbs
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:22 am

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby Jikan » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:19 pm

Huseng wrote:This is a really weird thread and if it continues I hope participants be reasonable and cite their sources.


This is usually the first source cited (either Prophet or one of her followers) in support of claims that Jesus spent time in Tibet, &c.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Clare_Prophet
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4285
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby fragrant herbs » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:58 pm

I did not know that Elizabeth Clare Prophet taught this, but I do know that Hindu yogis have often taught that Christ was in Tibet, but no one connected it with the Tantra teachings. They always quote The Life of Issa.
User avatar
fragrant herbs
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:22 am

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:07 pm

Jikan wrote:
Huseng wrote:This is a really weird thread and if it continues I hope participants be reasonable and cite their sources.


This is usually the first source cited (either Prophet or one of her followers) in support of claims that Jesus spent time in Tibet, &c.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Clare_Prophet


The earliest English language reference that Jesus was anywhere near the Himalayas is Isis Unveiled, published in 1877.

Based on this, one Nicolas Notovitch concocted the La vie inconnue de Jesus Christ, published in English in 1890 as The Unknown Life of Christ.

Then finally, this book was composed, The Aquarian Age Gospel of Jesus, the Christ of the Piscean Age, written by Levi H. Dowling (May 18, 1844 - August 13, 1911) and first published in 1908.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10168
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby adinatha » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:46 pm

My friend Rinchen went to the monastery in Ladakh where the alleged evidence of Jesus' visit was kept. But he said there was nothing there. The story of Jesus' visit to India is fiction.
CAW!
User avatar
adinatha
 
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:07 am

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:29 pm

adinatha wrote:My friend Rinchen went to the monastery in Ladakh where the alleged evidence of Jesus' visit was kept. But he said there was nothing there. The story of Jesus' visit to India is fiction.



Wasted trip -- the head of the monastery wrote an letter denouncing notivitch as a fraud as early as 1894.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10168
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby fragrant herbs » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:45 pm

And yet a swami in the Ramakrishna Order claimed that he went to India and saw the text and wrote about it as did Notovich. If you asked the Ramakrishna Order they would swear that they were not lying, just as the Buddhist monks swear that it isn't there.

Wonder what this film has to say about it, especially since the Dalai Lama's name is on it?

http://www.jesus-in-india-the-movie.com ... perts.html

http://www.westarinstitute.org/Periodic ... tibet.html
User avatar
fragrant herbs
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:22 am

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby adinatha » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:13 pm

Namdrol wrote:
adinatha wrote:My friend Rinchen went to the monastery in Ladakh where the alleged evidence of Jesus' visit was kept. But he said there was nothing there. The story of Jesus' visit to India is fiction.



Wasted trip -- the head of the monastery wrote an letter denouncing notivitch as a fraud as early as 1894.


Well, he was probably in the neighborhood. That man gets around.
CAW!
User avatar
adinatha
 
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:07 am

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:15 pm

fragrant herbs wrote:And yet a swami in the Ramakrishna Order...

l





Bullshit. There were no Buddhist monasteries in Ladhakh when Jesus was alive.

" That text has been translated from Tibetan at least twice and was published in entirety about 100 years ago by a Russian writer, Nicholas Notovitch, and then again in the 1920’s by Hindu Swami Abhedananda, a direct disciple of Ramakrishna of impeccable reputation."

There is evidence that either of these men knew a single word of Tibetan. This is just new age bullshit fantasy.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10168
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby Tenzin1 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:20 am

Nicholas Roerich and his son, George, who earned a PhD in Oriental Studies from Harvard and read Sanskrit and Tibetan, went to the monastery in Ladakh in the 1930's, found the "Notovich" text, translated it and sent news of the document and Jesus' activities in India to the US, where the news made headlines across the country. Copies of those newspaper reports can be seen at the Nicholas Roerich Museum in Manhattan. The next person to seek the text out a few decades later said it had disappeared or been stolen.
Tenzin1
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:36 am

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby Jikan » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:09 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Jikan wrote:
Huseng wrote:This is a really weird thread and if it continues I hope participants be reasonable and cite their sources.


This is usually the first source cited (either Prophet or one of her followers) in support of claims that Jesus spent time in Tibet, &c.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Clare_Prophet


The earliest English language reference that Jesus was anywhere near the Himalayas is Isis Unveiled, published in 1877.

Based on this, one Nicolas Notovitch concocted the La vie inconnue de Jesus Christ, published in English in 1890 as The Unknown Life of Christ.

Then finally, this book was composed, The Aquarian Age Gospel of Jesus, the Christ of the Piscean Age, written by Levi H. Dowling (May 18, 1844 - August 13, 1911) and first published in 1908.


Yes, this is all post-Theosophical stuff... my point was rather that most contemporary New Age devotees tend to cite more recent and popular materials such as Prophet's version of the I AM thing, which was itself derived from Theosophy (as was the Roerich's Agni Yoga, the Alice Bailey canon, &c); they tend not to cite Blavatsky directly (and if so, it's through a "channel" or whatever, since Theosophy also established the popular genre of "channeled" works given by ascended masters).

(and to be preemptively pedantic I'm talking about this form as something specific and distinct from dream visions & related forms of popular piety that can be found in English as early as The Dream of the Rood, and Piers Plowman, and so on)
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4285
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby Malcolm » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:25 pm

Tenzin1 wrote:Nicholas Roerich and his son, George, who earned a PhD in Oriental Studies from Harvard and read Sanskrit and Tibetan, went to the monastery in Ladakh in the 1930's, found the "Notovich" text, translated it and sent news of the document and Jesus' activities in India to the US, where the news made headlines across the country. Copies of those newspaper reports can be seen at the Nicholas Roerich Museum in Manhattan. The next person to seek the text out a few decades later said it had disappeared or been stolen.


This is false information. If you want to believe lies and fantasies, I can't stop you.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10168
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby fragrant herbs » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:09 pm

namdrol, how do you know that it is false.

it doesn't take away from the fact that the gospels are replete with teachings of buddha.
User avatar
fragrant herbs
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:22 am

Re: Did Jesus Have A Consort? Was Tantra A Christian Practice?

Postby Malcolm » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:24 pm

fragrant herbs wrote:namdrol, how do you know that it is false.


Well, for one there are no translations from Pali in Tibetan.

Two, any such translation could only have been done at earliest in 650 AD. We have no record of such a translation.

Three, there were no Buddhist monasteries in Tibet or Ladakh 2000 years ago.


it doesn't take away from the fact that the gospels are replete with teachings of buddha.


No, they are not.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10168
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Next

Return to Open Dharma

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kirtu, mikenz66, Thrasymachus and 26 guests

>