What is Transmission?

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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:19 pm

Namdrol wrote:
There is a mixup -- there are two words, same spelling, differing meanings depending on context.


very similar as what happens to the term 'transmission" I think!!
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Astus » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:43 pm

Namdrol,

Thanks for this post, I think it has all the answers for the question of transmission. I may not be as strict about living communication since there were and are people who realised the Dharma without direct contact, but those instances are the exception rather than the rule. Buddhism, just like any other religion, exists within a community and as such can live as long as the community does. And sometimes there are revivals of a dead tradition, another known phenomenon within Buddhism, religions and other philosophies and traditions. I consider such revivals just as legitimate as the continued lineage, not to mention the creation of new schools and appearances of new teachings. That's how I see no problems in accepting modern historical views about Buddhism where most of the living traditions have little basis to claim Shakyamuni as the founding teacher of the doctrine and practice as it exists now.
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:12 pm

Namdrol wrote:
adinatha wrote:
WTF? This is the first time I've seen this word. Online dict says, an expert in liturgies and hymns? You must be joking.


Doxology is the study of opinions, from the Greek "doxa" as in orthodox.

N
Δόξα ("doxa") means to praise, honour or glorify. Ορθόδοξος (orthodox) is the combination of two words "ορθό" meaning correct and "δοξος" meaning he who praises. To be orthodox means to practice the correct method of praising or glorifying.

Doxology would be the study/word (logos, λόγος) of how one praises, honours, or glorifies (doxo, δόξα). This would include liturgies and hymns but also icons, literature, sculpture, architecture and even forms of theology.
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:23 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
adinatha wrote:
WTF? This is the first time I've seen this word. Online dict says, an expert in liturgies and hymns? You must be joking.


Doxology is the study of opinions, from the Greek "doxa" as in orthodox.

N
Δόξα ("doxa") means to praise, honour or glorify. Ορθόδοξος (orthodox) is the combination of two words "ορθό" meaning correct and "δοξος" meaning he who praises. To be orthodox means to practice the correct method of praising or glorifying.

Doxology would be the study/word (logos, λόγος) of how one praises, honours, or glorifies (doxo, δόξα). This would include liturgies and hymns but also icons, literature, sculpture, architecture and even forms of theology.
:namaste:



Middle English orthodoxe, from Old French, from Late Latin orthodoxus, from Late Greek orthodoxos : Greek ortho-, ortho- + Greek doxa, opinion (from dokein, to think; see dek- in Indo-European roots).
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:57 pm

δοκέω (verb) means to from a subjective opinion of somebody, to believe something of someone. This leads to δόξα (to extol, to praise their subjectively ascertained qualities) which then leads to δοξάζω (to praise, honour, glorify, to worship). So it is not so much "to think" rather than it is "to think of".

Got to remember that the label Orthodox Christian was coined during the later Byzantine era (especially after the west-east split) and was in contrast to the term Catholic.
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Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:24 am

THOSE WHO SEE THIS SCRIPT WILL NOT EXPERINCE THE THREE LOWER REALMS AND WILL BE LIBERATED FROM THE FEAR OF FALLING INTO THE LOWER REALMS; WILL BE PURIFIED OF THE FIVE POISONS, AND WILL BE FREED FROM THE RESULTS OF ONE'S
KARMA; WILL BE FREED FROM THE FEAR OF REMAINING IN SAMSARA.


THIS IS A "TERMA REVELATION" WRITTEN IN DAKINI SCRIPT BY TERTON MIGYUR DORJE.





( If this is not a transmission....then what exactly is happening as you look at this Dakini script ??? )
liberation upon seeing.jpg
liberation upon seeing.jpg (11.49 KiB) Viewed 674 times
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Malcolm » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:36 pm

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:THOSE WHO SEE THIS SCRIPT WILL NOT EXPERINCE THE THREE LOWER REALMS AND WILL BE LIBERATED FROM THE FEAR OF FALLING INTO THE LOWER REALMS; WILL BE PURIFIED OF THE FIVE POISONS, AND WILL BE FREED FROM THE RESULTS OF ONE'S
KARMA; WILL BE FREED FROM THE FEAR OF REMAINING IN SAMSARA.


THIS IS A "TERMA REVELATION" WRITTEN IN DAKINI SCRIPT BY TERTON MIGYUR DORJE.





( If this is not a transmission....then what exactly is happening as you look at this Dakini script ??? )
liberation upon seeing.jpg


This script is a symbolic representation of the buddhas of the six lokas. These seeds syllables enter the eyes of fortunate sentient beings and create a dependent origination for them to be free of the six lokas in the future.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby adinatha » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:23 pm

Namdrol wrote:
adinatha wrote:
WTF? This is the first time I've seen this word. Online dict says, an expert in liturgies and hymns? You must be joking.


Doxology is the study of opinions, from the Greek "doxa" as in orthodox.

N


I am an expert in refuting opinions. That makes me your nemesis.
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Malcolm » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:28 pm

adinatha wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
adinatha wrote:
WTF? This is the first time I've seen this word. Online dict says, an expert in liturgies and hymns? You must be joking.


Doxology is the study of opinions, from the Greek "doxa" as in orthodox.

N


I am an expert in refuting opinions. That makes me your nemesis.


If I had an opinion, perhaps. But I don't. As Nāgārjuna says:

"If I had a thesis, I would be at fault; as I alone have no thesis, I alone am without fault."

A little understood point of the difference between an affirming negation and a non-affirming negation is that the former is used to defend one's own position while the later is used to reject an opponents position. Since a Madhyamaka has no opinions, only non-affirming negations are utilized in Madhyamaka.

N

N
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http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby adinatha » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:32 pm

Namdrol wrote:
adinatha wrote:
Namdrol wrote:Doxology is the study of opinions, from the Greek "doxa" as in orthodox.

N


I am an expert in refuting opinions. That makes me your nemesis.


If I had an opinion, perhaps. But I don't. As Nāgārjuna says:

"If I had a thesis, I would be at fault; as I alone have no thesis, I alone am without fault."

A little understood point of the difference between an affirming negation and a non-affirming negation is that the former is used to defend one's own position while the later is used to reject an opponents position. Since a Madhyamaka has no opinions, only non-affirming negations are utilized in Madhyamaka.

N

N


So you are an expert in refuting opinions too? That would be an unorthodoxist. Then, it doesn't take any knowledge of others opinions to be a Madhyamakan. You just need the non-affirming negation and a little socratic Q & A to uncover others' assumptions.
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Malcolm » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:46 pm

adinatha wrote:
So you are an expert in refuting opinions too? That would be an unorthodoxist. Then, it doesn't take any knowledge of others opinions to be a Madhyamakan. You just need the non-affirming negation and a little socratic Q & A to uncover others' assumptions.


The only reason to learn opinions is to negate them if necessary, or to understand how they are not consistent with dependent origination. If they are consistent with dependent origination, then there is no reason to negate them.

Another reason to learn opinions is to be able to contextualize concepts.

N
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:47 pm

_/\_

Dear Namdrol...Aren't there different types of transmission ?

Mind-to-mind = dharmakaya being to sambhogakaya being (Samantabhadra to Vajrasattva)
sign =symbollic (Seed Sylllables) (like the Liberation_upon_Seeing)
Hearing = verbal transmission of teachings from master to disciple on the human plane.(Like what you define in this thread)

I dug this up from Google :


There is a short line of transmissions between the terton and the ultimate source of a terma, traced to a primordial buddha. Three of these transmissions are common to the Nyingma lineage, and three are particular to terma. The three lineages of transmission common to the Nyingma lineage mark the transmission of a set of teaching from the abstract dimension of a primordial buddha to eighth-century figures in India, such as Garab Dorje, Vimalamitra, and Padmasambhava. The first transmission is the “mind lineage of the victorious ones,” which represents the mind-to-mind transmission between a dharmakaya being, such as Samantabhadra, and a sambhogakaya being such as Vajrasattva. The second transmission is the “sign lineage of the vidyadharas,” which is a transmission through symbolic means between a sambhogakaya being and nirmanakaya master. And the third transmission is the “hearing lineage of ordinary individuals,” which is the verbal transmission of teachings from master to disciple on the human plane.

The process of transmission, particular to terma, also includes three phases: the prophetic authorization in which Padmasambhava appoints one of his disciples to reveal a set of teachings in the future, the mind mandate transmission in which he seals the teachings in the mindstream of that disciple, and the entrustment to the dakinis, in which female deities are appointed to protect the teaching until the appropriate time for its revelation.

In this way, terma are fresh teachings conveyed through a short transmission and imbued with tremendous wisdom and blessings. It is said that the closer one is to the original source of a teaching, the more potency it holds.


For an in-depth survey of terma, consult Hidden Teachings of Tibet: An Explanation of the Terma Tradition of Tibetan Buddhism by Tulku Thondup Rinpoche (Wisdom Publications, 1986).


http://207.58.143.117/~rinchent/?page_id=918



_/\_

Thank You

_/\_
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Enochian » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:59 pm

Namdrol wrote:
A little understood point of the difference between an affirming negation and a non-affirming negation is that the former is used to defend one's own position while the later is used to reject an opponents position. Since a Madhyamaka has no opinions, only non-affirming negations are utilized in Madhyamaka.

N




Isn't this actually the most famous and well known bit about Madhyamaka? :shrug:
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:08 pm

Namdrol wrote:
This script is a symbolic representation of the buddhas of the six lokas. These seeds syllables enter the eyes of fortunate sentient beings and create a dependent origination for them to be free of the six lokas in the future.

N



_/\_

Wow...Thank You !

So what happens to you when you are FREE of the six lokas in the future ?
No rebirth ?
Enlightenment ?


Thankyou Namdrol

_/\_
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:32 pm

Astus wrote:Namdrol,

Thanks for this post, I think it has all the answers for the question of transmission. I may not be as strict about living communication since there were and are people who realised the Dharma without direct contact, but those instances are the exception rather than the rule. Buddhism, just like any other religion, exists within a community and as such can live as long as the community does. And sometimes there are revivals of a dead tradition, another known phenomenon within Buddhism, religions and other philosophies and traditions. I consider such revivals just as legitimate as the continued lineage, not to mention the creation of new schools and appearances of new teachings. That's how I see no problems in accepting modern historical views about Buddhism where most of the living traditions have little basis to claim Shakyamuni as the founding teacher of the doctrine and practice as it exists now.




Sorry Namdrol...I just realized you already answered my question about the types of transmissions here.

Thankyou

_/\_
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Sherab » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:33 am

Namdrol wrote:No. Recorded words are not the same. They are a recording of an act of speech, but not the act of speech itself. Teaching and bestowing transmission are acts.

The words recorded are divorced from the act of speech. They are relics, not alive.

It is the act of speaking and the act of listening happening together at the same time that constitutes a transmission.

Now, this discussion is boring me to tears so I am not going to continue jousting with people's intellectual foppery any further.

If a teacher intends to transmit via a recording and acts on that intention and make the recording, then according to you there can be no transmission despite the intention of the teacher to transmit and the intention of the student to receive, if the student listens to the recording made by the teacher since "the act of speaking and the act of listening happening together at the same time .. constitutes a transmission".
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:38 am

Sherab wrote:If a teacher intends to transmit via a recording and acts on that intention and make the recording, then according to you there can be no transmission despite the intention of the teacher to transmit and the intention of the student to receive, if the student listens to the recording made by the teacher since "the act of speaking and the act of listening happening together at the same time .. constitutes a transmission".


Correct. There has never been an instance of an empowerment delivered via a recording. Why is that?

N
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby adinatha » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:08 am

There has been instances of empowerment in dream, meditation or waking experience. Why's that?
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Sherab » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:59 am

Namdrol wrote:
Sherab wrote:If a teacher intends to transmit via a recording and acts on that intention and make the recording, then according to you there can be no transmission despite the intention of the teacher to transmit and the intention of the student to receive, if the student listens to the recording made by the teacher since "the act of speaking and the act of listening happening together at the same time .. constitutes a transmission".


Correct. There has never been an instance of an empowerment delivered via a recording. Why is that?

N

Say person A is knew person B is looking for a thing Y. Person A intends to give person B the thing Y and left it in a place X. Person B went to place X and saw thing Y and took thing Y. In this instance, is there no offering of thing Y by person A to person B? Is there no receiving of thing Y by person B from person A?
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Pero » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:03 am

adinatha wrote:There has been instances of empowerment in dream, meditation or waking experience. Why's that?

So?
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