What is Transmission?

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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:10 pm

adinatha wrote:I have also found that transmission is not indispensable for gaining experience with practices. For example, no teacher gave me transmission for deity yoga X or guru yoga Y, but I practiced these with devotion and the signs of accomplishment arose nonetheless.


This is generally explained as the blessings of māra.

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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby adinatha » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:33 pm

Namdrol wrote:
adinatha wrote:I have also found that transmission is not indispensable for gaining experience with practices. For example, no teacher gave me transmission for deity yoga X or guru yoga Y, but I practiced these with devotion and the signs of accomplishment arose nonetheless.


This is generally explained as the blessings of māra.

N


Sure. But that's just general. With the lineage mind transmission one has power to overcome four maras.
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:34 pm

adinatha wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
adinatha wrote:I have also found that transmission is not indispensable for gaining experience with practices. For example, no teacher gave me transmission for deity yoga X or guru yoga Y, but I practiced these with devotion and the signs of accomplishment arose nonetheless.


This is generally explained as the blessings of māra.

N


Sure. But that's just general. With the lineage mind transmission one has power to overcome four maras.



Only if you are a buddha, and I imagine you are not really willing to claim that status for yourself. Only a buddha has overcome the four māras.

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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby adinatha » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:45 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Only if you are a buddha, and I imagine you are not really willing to claim that status for yourself. Only a buddha has overcome the four māras.

N


What I'm getting at is four maras are always a problem on the path to buddhahood. The lineage blessings are not mara's blessings.
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby conebeckham » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:53 pm

So, based on a little review of this thread, it seems to me that "Transmission" does not mean there is some "mystical" force or energy, or whatnot, that is "transmitted" from master to disciple. Though, in my opinion, some folks think of it that way.

Instead, through a number of specific causal conditions and circumstances, including the conditions of"Proper" student-properly prepared, with appropriate vows, etc. and the "Proper" teacher-with lineage, and with appropriate experience, the properly-proscribed ritual/methodology/ceremony takes place, and transmission occurs.
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby adinatha » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:55 pm

conebeckham wrote:So, based on a little review of this thread, it seems to me that "Transmission" does not mean there is some "mystical" force or energy, or whatnot, that is "transmitted" from master to disciple. Though, in my opinion, some folks think of it that way.

Instead, through a number of specific causal conditions and circumstances, including the conditions of"Proper" student-properly prepared, with appropriate vows, etc. and the "Proper" teacher-with lineage, and with appropriate experience, the properly-proscribed ritual/methodology/ceremony takes place, and transmission occurs.


Good one. I agree with this.
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Kyosan » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:21 pm

Astus wrote:So you say that it can't be explained what is being transmitted because "you have to experience it"? Even about apples there is quite a lot to say, and this is just Wikipedia. If somebody asks about selflessness it would be a weak and dismissive answer to say "you have to experience it" or give a few metaphors as if one were talking about human reproduction to little children. Fortunately there are many teachings on selflessness to provide a clear and lucid explanation to anyone interested. Anything even close to that on transmission?

You seem to think that Buddhism is easy to comprehend, but it's not. Why do you think that Buddha explained the dharma in so many ways, and used metaphor? We really are like children to the Buddha and shouldn't feel insulted when metaphor is used in the sutras or by others explaining their understanding of Buddhism to us. If it helps us understand, it's a good thing.

That feeling of being insulted, I think, is the ego. One of the great things about Mahayana Buddhism is that we try to put our feelings aside and practice for the sake of all sentient beings. I think, doing that is very beneficial to our practice. It's not easy to do; I have trouble with that all the time.
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:47 pm

Astus wrote:Both get the point across clearly. Or an e-mail, a video, a postcard, a piece of paper on the fridge, etc. Both tell the same thing and I understand the same thing. There are of course possibilities to make it sound/look more emotional, aesthetic, passionate, and so on, but the message remains the same.
So all there is to saying "I love you" is the words (or sounds made by saying the words) and any medium that allows these words (sounds) to reach you, is fine by you?

I just gonna say it straight up: I think you are talking shit just to avoid accepting a fact! Now if only I can figure out why you are putting up so much pointless resistance to the obvious...
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:56 am

Namdrol wrote:

"This is generally explained as...."

N


Just curious, do you consider yourself to be a dogmatist?
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:02 am

Astus wrote:
If I read the 5 precepts and keep them is not the same if I hear and then keep them - no reason why. But if I watch a video about the Diamond Sutra is just as good as if I were present at the teaching.


The error is assuming that a teaching is the same as a transmission.
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:59 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Namdrol wrote:

"This is generally explained as...."

N


Just curious, do you consider yourself to be a dogmatist?



Properly speaking, I am Buddhist doxologist -- someone who is who studies and is fairly expert in various Buddhist doxologies.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby adinatha » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:51 am

Namdrol wrote:
PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Namdrol wrote:

"This is generally explained as...."

N


Just curious, do you consider yourself to be a dogmatist?



Properly speaking, I am Buddhist doxologist -- someone who is who studies and is fairly expert in various Buddhist doxologies.


WTF? This is the first time I've seen this word. Online dict says, an expert in liturgies and hymns? You must be joking.
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:05 am

Namdrol wrote:
Properly speaking, I am Buddhist doxologist -- someone who is who studies and is fairly expert in various Buddhist doxologies.


Thanks, doc. just wondered. So, to relate that to this topic, do you think something is conveyed in liturgical singing or chanting that goes beyond the mere words that are being sung?

Not to suggest that this would in itself be an example of "transmission", but merely to suggest that something intangible can also be presented, along with the words?
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby ground » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:02 am

Astus wrote:But, there are those who believe transmission is real and important. How so?


No Dharma without transmission.
However once the to-be-transmitted has been received the recipient should pack up and leave. Why? The transmitter has completed his job and has delivered the to-be-transmitted.

Kind regards
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby adinatha » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:07 am

TMingyur wrote:
Astus wrote:But, there are those who believe transmission is real and important. How so?


No Dharma without transmission.
However once the to-be-transmitted has been received the recipient should pack up and leave. Why? The transmitter has completed his job and has delivered the to-be-transmitted.

Kind regards


Sometimes the transmission can take years. As in the case of Milarepa spending 12 years with Marpa.
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby ground » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:14 am

If one conditions oneself with such kind of thoughts then one may end up clinging one's whole life without receiving. Better to leave and look for an efficient transmitter.

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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Josef » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:19 am

TMingyur wrote:
Astus wrote:But, there are those who believe transmission is real and important. How so?


No Dharma without transmission.
However once the to-be-transmitted has been received the recipient should pack up and leave. Why? The transmitter has completed his job and has delivered the to-be-transmitted.

Kind regards

Ridiculous as usual.
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Tara » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:37 am

Off topic posts deleted.


:focus: "What is Transmission?"

Regards,
rt
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**********************************************************
Maybe you collect a lot of important writings,
Major texts, personal instructions, private notes, whatever.
If you haven’t practiced, books won’t help you when you die.
Look at the mind – that’s my sincere advice.

**********************************************************
from Longchenpa's 30 Pieces of Sincere Advice

Mors certa — hora incerta
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:50 pm

adinatha wrote:
WTF? This is the first time I've seen this word. Online dict says, an expert in liturgies and hymns? You must be joking.


Doxology is the study of opinions, from the Greek "doxa" as in orthodox.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: What is Transmission?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:51 pm

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Properly speaking, I am Buddhist doxologist -- someone who is who studies and is fairly expert in various Buddhist doxologies.


Thanks, doc. just wondered. So, to relate that to this topic, do you think something is conveyed in liturgical singing or chanting that goes beyond the mere words that are being sung?

Not to suggest that this would in itself be an example of "transmission", but merely to suggest that something intangible can also be presented, along with the words?


There is a mixup -- there are two words, same spelling, differing meanings depending on context.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
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