gregkavarnos wrote:Geeez, and here was me, dumb ass that I am, thinking that enlightenment is enlightenment until a bunch of academics came along and proved me wrong. Now ordination is not ordination and somebody is gonna come along and say to me that Buddhism is not Buddhism.
Can somebody please remind me again exactly how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
While I agree that there must be some kind of continuity in the ordination lineages isn't it enough to just get three or more precept holders, regardless of lineage, to bestow the vows? What would happen if you got two precept holders from one lineage and one from another lineage together to give you the vows (for lack of three plus from a single lineage)? Would that mean your vows are not valid? I know it's highly hypothetical (or maybe it isn't really) but I am interested in what the answer is.
It isn't hypothetical since that's what happened at nun ordinations for Theravada and Tibetan groups. You can also see now how Vinaya can be not much different from the Canon Law of the Catholic Church and how fundamentalism - or legalism
- is very much present in the debate over ordaining nuns. But I think it's not difficult to find other incidents similar to that.
"While teachers of the middle way, mind only, transcendent wisdom, mantra, and other schools may have their own assertions, the fulfillment of those intentions is the same. There is not a single thing that is not contained within mind."
(Gampopa to Düsum Khyenpa, in "The First Karmapa", KTD Pub, p254)
“If you recognize the world of appearance and existence as the mind, realize the mind itself as empty, and have no grasping at the superiority of your realizations — this is the ultimate view."
(Chegom Dzongpa, in "The Book of Kadam", Wisdom Pub, p609)