buddhist hinduism?

[Enochian]

I have yet to see someone tell it like it is, like I do in my signature.

This is because you haven't yet received Dzogchen transmission and you've read very few Dzogchen texts. The explanations about the mirror and kadag and lhundrub and their inseparability are skillful means to bring about understanding and possibly trigger insight, but they are not meditated upon. So from that point of view they are not the main point. Instead, one relaxes with an utter lack of modification or fabrication or placement or objectification of any kind; though even these words can be misleading because there can be a great resemblance between rigpa and the state of non-conceptual quiescence, even though in reality there is the most profound difference between the two. This is of course why the guru is indispensable: first in terms of helping one recognize one's primordial state and then guiding one so one can stay on course and not fall into deviations that can be difficult to apprehend.

Well let me ask you or anyone else this.

The key thing in Dzogchen is distinguishing sems from rigpa.

Thus you need some sort of obvious characteristic of sems to distinguish it.

Do any Dzogchen teachings point out the obvious distinguishing characteristic of sems i.e. sems (mind) is always on the Three Times?

I haven't read anything regarding this in Dzogchen material, even though it is quite obvious.....

[Malcolm]

I have yet to see someone tell it like it is, like I do in my signature.

This is because you haven't yet received Dzogchen transmission and you've read very few Dzogchen texts. The explanations about the mirror and kadag and lhundrub and their inseparability are skillful means to bring about understanding and possibly trigger insight, but they are not meditated upon. So from that point of view they are not the main point. Instead, one relaxes with an utter lack of modification or fabrication or placement or objectification of any kind; though even these words can be misleading because there can be a great resemblance between rigpa and the state of non-conceptual quiescence, even though in reality there is the most profound difference between the two. This is of course why the guru is indispensable: first in terms of helping one recognize one's primordial state and then guiding one so one can stay on course and not fall into deviations that can be difficult to apprehend.

Well let me ask you or anyone else this.

The key thing in Dzogchen is distinguishing sems from rigpa.

Thus you need some sort of obvious characteristic of sems to distinguish it.

Do any Dzogchen teachings point out the obvious distinguishing characteristic of sems i.e. sems (mind) is always on the Three Times?

I haven't read anything regarding this in Dzogchen material, even though it is quite obvious.....

The most obvious distinguishing characteristic of sems is conceptuality. Time is not established per se, it is a conceptual construct.

N

[Enochian]

The most obvious distinguishing characteristic of sems is conceptuality. Time is not established per se, it is a conceptual construct.

N

Exactly.

[Pema Rigdzin]

I have yet to see someone tell it like it is, like I do in my signature.

This is because you haven't yet received Dzogchen transmission and you've read very few Dzogchen texts. The explanations about the mirror and kadag and lhundrub and their inseparability are skillful means to bring about understanding and possibly trigger insight, but they are not meditated upon. So from that point of view they are not the main point. Instead, one relaxes with an utter lack of modification or fabrication or placement or objectification of any kind; though even these words can be misleading because there can be a great resemblance between rigpa and the state of non-conceptual quiescence, even though in reality there is the most profound difference between the two. This is of course why the guru is indispensable: first in terms of helping one recognize one's primordial state and then guiding one so one can stay on course and not fall into deviations that can be difficult to apprehend.

Well let me ask you or anyone else this.

The key thing in Dzogchen is distinguishing sems from rigpa.

Thus you need some sort of obvious characteristic of sems to distinguish it.

Do any Dzogchen teachings point out the obvious distinguishing characteristic of sems i.e. sems (mind) is always on the Three Times?

I haven't read anything regarding this in Dzogchen material, even though it is quite obvious.....

Dzogchen teachings speak very clearly about the characteristics of sem or mind and how rigpa is distinct. Some teachings go quite into detail about the non-conceptual states of sem most closely resembling rigpa and in what ways rigpa is distinct from them.

[gregkavarnos]

Dear Enochian,

When in fracks sake will you realise that only way to learn Dzogchen (and Vajrayana in general) is through a frackin' teacher? Any thing else is just mental masturbation that will lead to confusion and actually block/destroy your capacity to realise your natural state.

When exactly?

[Enochian]

Dear Enochian,

When in fracks sake will you realise that only way to learn Dzogchen (and Vajrayana in general) is through a frackin' teacher? Any thing else is just mental masturbation that will lead to confusion and actually block/destroy your capacity to realise your natural state.

When exactly?

Thats pretty egoic to assume that I am interested in becoming a Vajrayana or Dzogchen practitioner isn't it?

I know people who are Vajrayana pracitioners. It isn't all roses.

I also am interested in the history of Islam and all the caliphates, judaism, but I don't see you accusing me of wanting to be a fracking Muslim or jew.

I am not interested in taking the risk of going to Vajra Hell, nor will I be pressured to do so from the likes of you:

http://www.atikosha.org/2011/04/birthplaces.html

[Josef]

Dear Enochian,

When in fracks sake will you realise that only way to learn Dzogchen (and Vajrayana in general) is through a frackin' teacher? Any thing else is just mental masturbation that will lead to confusion and actually block/destroy your capacity to realise your natural state.

When exactly?

Thats pretty egoic to assume that I am interested in becoming a Vajrayana or Dzogchen practitioner isn't it?

I know people who are Vajrayana pracitioners. It isn't all roses.

You are definitely right that its not all roses.
I don't see how Greg's post is egoic. What is however is consistently posting generalizations etc. about a tradition with a tone of authority when its quite clear that the requisite authority is not present.
Many posters here have a lot of experience.

[Tara]

I see that the Battlestar Galactica series is more popular than I imagined.

So say we all.

Breaking Bad is the best TV show ever.

"buddhist hinduism?"

Please note any more off topic posts will be removed without further notice or explanation.

Regards,
rt

[gregkavarnos]

I know people who are Vajrayana pracitioners. It isn't all roses.

Tell me about it!

I am not interested in taking the risk of going to Vajra Hell, nor will I be pressured to do so from the likes of you:

http://www.atikosha.org/2011/04/birthplaces.html

Engaging a teacher and asking for instruction will not send you to vajra hell. Breaking samaya will also not necessarily send you to vajra hell either. There are purification practices to mend broken samaya. But the reality is that if you don't dive in the water (for fear of drowning), then there is no way that you are going to get wet. There is no way that you will experience that wonderful feeling of coolness and weightlessness, no matter how much you read and argue and discuss about it. You've been here long enough, either jump in or get off the diving board. Either commit to the deed or take off the bathing trunks and put your clothes back on.

[Enochian]

Read Emptiness by Gesh Tashi Tsering.

I am an obsessed follower of Mādhyamaka philosophy, so I am pretty sure what I have written is correct.

Not everyone agrees with Geshe Tashi's interpretation.

Why do you say that?

Because of this self admitted Christian guy who trashes EVERY MADHYAMAKA book on Amazon???

http://www.amazon.com/Emptiness-Foundat ... addTwoStar


Seriously, I am curious. It seems like an excellent book when I was flipping through it at the bookstore. I pretty much read the whole thing.

[booker]

Buddhist logic on this is airtight. There is nothing in the universe that is not dependently originated. Whatever is dependently originated is free from the extremes of existence and non-existence. Since there are no beings in a dependently originated universe, there also no ground of being. What is the use of a ground of being if there are no beings for which it is purported to be a ground?

N

Hello Lopon

How about Kunzhi as understood in Dzoghen? It is said to be the ground of being - all being sentient and insentient, and is not dependently originated. Isn't it?

[Karma Dondrup Tashi]

I thought the view of emptiness in Dzogchen was prasangika. I think Mipham said this.

[Malcolm]

How about Kunzhi as understood in Dzoghen? It is said to be the ground of being - all being sentient and insentient, and is not dependently originated. Isn't it?

The term "ground of being" does not exist in any Buddhist text, nor any Dzogchen text. It is a western gloss, one that is inaccurate.

There is a term "kun gzhi" this is understood differently in different Dzogchen cycles and by different Dzogchen masters. So there isn't a one size fits all definition.

In those texts that speak of the so called kun gzhi -- the kun gzhi is complete free from all extremes. Whatever arises from it therefore, also must be free from all extremes. "Being and non-being" are just cognitive errors.

N

[deff]

enochian, my (deluded) advice for you would be to find a teacher and study/practice mahayana teachings/methods for now... and really focus on developing bodhicitta and understanding of emptiness, then when the time comes that you feel you are prepared to enter the vajrayana, do so at that time

having a teacher is very very wonderful. also regular practice is very important. as you develop in bodhicitta i'm sure the fear of vajra hell will be lessened and you'll have more confidence in your abilities to successfully follow the path.

my 2 cents

[Josef]

Not everyone agrees with Geshe Tashi's interpretation.

Why do you say that?

Because of this self admitted Christian guy who trashes EVERY MADHYAMAKA book on Amazon???

http://www.amazon.com/Emptiness-Foundat ... addTwoStar


Seriously, I am curious. It seems like an excellent book when I was flipping through it at the bookstore. I pretty much read the whole thing.

I don't read amazon reviews and certainly would never be swayed by what a Christian guy on Amazon has to say about Madhyamaka.
I've received the teachings in person. It makes no difference to me what people on the internet who have not think of them.
Its not a bad book. It's just that it puts forth an interpretation of emptiness, which I disagree with as a definitive teaching on Madhyamaka. Its useful but not the definitive interpretation. In my opinion the book I recommended to you earlier is a much better resource.

[Enochian]

Its not a bad book. It's just that it puts forth an interpretation of emptiness, which I disagree with as a definitive teaching on Madhyamaka. Its useful but not the definitive interpretation. In my opinion the book I recommended to you earlier is a much better resource.

your book is just a translation of a particular text, not a book on Madhyamaka in general.

I read it.

I am dissapointed.

[Josef]

Its not a bad book. It's just that it puts forth an interpretation of emptiness, which I disagree with as a definitive teaching on Madhyamaka. Its useful but not the definitive interpretation. In my opinion the book I recommended to you earlier is a much better resource.

your book is just a translation of a particular text, not a book on Madhyamaka in general.

I read it.

I am dissapointed.

Its a translation of a text that clarifies the view of Madhyamaka very skillfully.
In doing so it clearly points out where others have made mistakes.
I think you read the books description on Amazon, and not the actual book.

[Enochian]

I think you read the books description on Amazon, and not the actual book.

I pretty much read the whole thing on Google Books

[Josef]

I think you read the books description on Amazon, and not the actual book.

I pretty much read the whole thing on Google Books

The whole thing?
Google books has about 80 or so pages of over 400 available for browsing and many of those pages are introduction.
Hardly any of the translation is available.

[Malcolm]

I think you read the books description on Amazon, and not the actual book.

I pretty much read the whole thing on Google Books

Gorampa is pretty much the definitive voice on Madhyamaka in Tibet.