The only hindrance

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The only hindrance

Postby Individual » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:15 am

The only hindrance is insincerity and imitation is the only immoral act.

Agree or disagree?
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Re: The only hindrance

Postby kirtu » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:54 pm

The only hindrance to what?

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“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
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Re: The only hindrance

Postby Individual » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:37 am

kirtu wrote:The only hindrance to what?

Kirt

Freedom.
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Re: The only hindrance

Postby kirtu » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:04 am

Individual wrote:
kirtu wrote:The only hindrance to what?

Freedom.


Freedom in what sense?

At any rate only one counter example is necessary -
"The only hindrance [to freedom] is insincerity and imitation is the only immoral act."

Imagine any one of the countless innocent people executed over time: the hindrance to their personal freedom was someone else or a group of people putting them to death.

Murder is an immoral act. People who commit murder accumulate very heavy karma. Therefore there are immoral acts other than imitation.

The karma accrued from imitation is uncertain. A child learning to write letters by imitating their teacher is accumulating neutral karma unless the child had in mind helping people in some form through the knowledge or during the teaching. Therefore imitation is not necessarily an immoral act since it generates neutral or even positive karma in this example.

What are you talking about anyway?

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Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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Re: The only hindrance

Postby conebeckham » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:41 am

Ignorance is the only hinderance, actually.

Insincerity is a very gross form of ignorance. It's a form of lying, which is something that comes about due to ignorance. But there are many other negative habits and actions, all of which are hinderances, but all of which can be boiled down to ignorance.

And I don't think Imitation is an immoral act at all. In fact, "Imitation" in some sense shows a great deal of respect. Of course, it depends on what we're "imitating."

So, I'd have to say I disagree.
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Re: The only hindrance

Postby mudra » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:06 am

Individual, why try and reinvent the wheel? And the axle, and the chassis, and the engine, and the brakes, and the ......

Go back to Four Arya Truths. Start there.
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Re: The only hindrance

Postby Individual » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:53 am

kirtu wrote:
Individual wrote:
kirtu wrote:The only hindrance to what?

Freedom.


Freedom in what sense?

There is only one kind of freedom

conebeckham wrote:Ignorance is the only hinderance, actually.

Insincerity is a very gross form of ignorance. It's a form of lying, which is something that comes about due to ignorance. But there are many other negative habits and actions, all of which are hinderances, but all of which can be boiled down to ignorance.

And I don't think Imitation is an immoral act at all. In fact, "Imitation" in some sense shows a great deal of respect. Of course, it depends on what we're "imitating."

So, I'd have to say I disagree.

But what is ignorance? Not ignorance of book knowledge. Ignorance of impermanence and notself, with conceptual proliferations that result in birth.

If you stop copying the consciousnesses you experience and re-establishing them from moment to moment, there is no ignorance and there is no birth.

Being ignorant can also be a form of sincerity. And sincere ignorance is superior to conceitful book knowledge.

mudra wrote:Individual, why try and reinvent the wheel? And the axle, and the chassis, and the engine, and the brakes, and the ......

Go back to Four Arya Truths. Start there.

To make something, an inventor needs to experiment. :stirthepot:
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Re: The only hindrance

Postby conebeckham » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:17 pm

I think you need to "un-make" something.
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Re: The only hindrance

Postby Jikan » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:26 pm

conebeckham wrote:I think you need to "un-make" something.


Exactly this.

We all do: it's not personal.
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Re: The only hindrance

Postby conebeckham » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:55 pm

We all do: it's not personal.


Absolutely.
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