Sexual energy

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Sexual energy

Postby kvakamak » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:34 pm

Hello for everybody !
I want to ask personal question about sexual and spitiual energy.How can we transform sexual energy into spiritual,do you know some technics or practices ?I heard about practice in which you breath depply your energy from genitals and lead it throught spine and over your head you release and it should change sexual to spiritual but i am not sure ... maybe dont thought about anything sexual ?

I ask because i have very strong excitement,i dont have a girlfriend and i dont want to wank,because i feel i lose a lot of energy and i am lazy,tired uninspired etc. ... After i stoped wanking i feel much better in many aspects of life but i am sometimes very horny. :roll:

Sorry for scandalizing someone, but it is real problem for me on my spiritual way, in nearest and maybe sombody will have or had same problem.
Thanks a lot.
Wish all bests.
:smile:
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby ground » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:12 pm

First thing is you have to get insight into the first noble truth: How and why ordinary life and everything involved in ordinary life is actually suffering and nothing but suffering. As long as you cannot affirm the first noble truth from the depth of your heart all attempts to get rid of specific kinds of suffering (like the sensual addiction you are refering to) will most likely be a failure and the kind of transformation you mention will be mere fantasy.

Kind regards
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby Astus » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:04 pm

Sensual lust is not in the body but the mind. It is your mind you should train if you want to gain some control over your passion. Starting meditation practice itself is good for calming the mind which in itself is efficient in decreasing disturbing impulses. Also, through meditation you can eventually gain insight into the nature of sensual craving. So the best thing you can do is to look around in your area and join a Buddhist group where you can learn the basics of meditation practice.

Specifically for sensual lust the antidote used is meditation on impurity (asubha bhavana). Note that it is better if you already know the basics of how to calm your mind, which is the fundamental for any meditation practice in Buddhism. Here you can find a comprehensive introduction to meditation on impurty: A Buddhist Approach to the Contemplation on Body Parts - Asubha. Here you can find it with pictures: Asubha-kammatthana.

And for some food for thought, here's the relevant chapter from Aryadeva's Four Hundred Stanzas:

Regardless of the amount of time,
Concerning objects there is no limit.
Your exertion for the body's sake
Is, like a bad physician's, useless.

Just as the craving for earth
Does not stop in those that subsist on it,
Similarly, longing for sensual pleasure
Grows in people as they indulge.

Among all women there is not the least
Difference in sexual intercourse.
When others, too, enjoy her appearance,
What use is this perfect woman to you?

Whoever sees her as appealing
Thinks himself satisfied with her.
Since even dogs and the like share this,
Why, fool, are you attracted?

This woman, every part of whom is
Lovely to you, was common to all before.
Finding her is not as
Astonishing as it is for you.

If those with good qualities seem attractive
And their opposite the reverse,
Which is true, former or latter?
For neither alone persists.

A fool's desire does not arise
Only for those with good qualities.
How can reason prevent
Those involved in it without reason?

As long as she knows no other
She will remain with you.
As with disease, woman should always be
Kept from opportunity.

In old age one dislikes
What one did during youth.
Why would the liberated not
Be extremely saddened by it?

Those without desire have no pleasure,
Nor do those not foolish have it.
How can there be pleasure for one
Whose mind constantly strays?

You cannot have intercourse constantly
With a woman to match your attentiveness to her.
Why keep her possessively with the thought,
"She is mine and no one else's."

If desire were pleasurable
There would be no need for women.
Pleasure is not regarded as
Something to get rid of.

Even in intercourse with a woman
Pleasure arises from other [factors].
What sensible person would say
It is caused just by his lover?

Blinded by desire they do not see
Sensuality's fault, like a leper scratching.
Those free from desire see the infatuated
As suffering like the leper.

During a famine the destitute,
Tormented by hunger, [bear] what occurs.
This is how all the infatuated
Behave when they are with women.

Through arrogance one may be
Attached even to one's privy.
Anyone infatuated with
A woman will be jealous of others.

It is reasonable for confusion
And anger about the unclean to occur;
It is not at all reasonable
For desire to occur.

If, except to some people,
A pot of filth is objectionable,
Why would one not think objectionable
That from which the filth comes?

Clean things are looked upon
As the most worthless of all.
What intelligent person
Would say that it is clean?

Whoever has lived in a privy
And without it would not have survived,
In such a dung-worm, arrogance
Arises only through stupidity.

No means whatsoever will purify
The inside of the body.
The efforts you make toward the outside
Do not match those toward the inside.

If, like leprosy, being full of
Urine were not common to all,
Those full of urine, just like lepers,
Would be shunned by everyone.

Just as someone lacking a part
Is delighted with a substitute nose,
Desire holds that impurity is
Remedied by flowers and so forth.

It is inappropriate to call clean that
Toward which freedom from desire arises.
Nor is there anything which is
A definitive cause of desire.

In summary, all four, that is
Impermanence, uncleanness, suffering
And selflessness are possible
With regard to a single [thing].

Understanding that sentient beings are also bound
Like oneself in this unclean prison,
With energy generate compassion observing transmigrators,
And make effort to accomplish highest enlightenment.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby SonamZangpo » Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:12 am

An important thing with these sorts of practices of taming lust is to actually DO them. Visualizing or actually looking at such things can be disturbing, and many avoid it just on that basis, but I think I'm going to stop avoiding it soon :)

Another practice I've heard of more has to do with lusting after someone specifically. According to that person's age, associate them with a member of a family- mother, sister, cousin, daughter, etc... and if you find yourself visualizing perverted things about that person, force yourself to visualize that relative in the same way. It is the same body, at the same age, yet you feel disgusted to do so. This helps tame lust.

Also, visualizing a woman aging and then dying I've heard is a way to do it.

Another way, sort of related to what has been said above is that then you go to undress someone with your mind, don't stop when you hit the skin. Keep going, peeling off their skin and working deeper through disgusting things until you reach a skeleton.


(man, this is one of those instances that I need to take my own advice. Yikes!)
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:31 am

All excellent responses I will add a bit from a differing perspective however..

I would be careful not to beat myself up over this thing. At certain ages it could be called completely natural. Not preferable and a cause for loss of focus and some other negative things but a thing which most all at certain ages engage in some form.

If one is like me perhaps you may try to engage this thing with a quiet mind if one has that training.
You will perhaps find it quite impossible as I have. The thing may still present after doing this.... but with changed character and a lessening of objectification. So if you are like me you don't transform it or anything like that but it just changes its character by itself if engaged in this manner. So if I wanted to change that and have not the training I would engage that training.

I of course am only a uneducated layperson with no accomplishment. But to me it seems that sex is as some say...... related to a quality of awareness that emphesizes the differentiation of objects. What is different as opposed to same, as aware function. So if not present in sexual form I think objects, sunlight trees whatever, have a resultant effect of brightness quality and depth. Perhaps the visual being the most sense related to ascertaining discrimination(just guessing).
So I'm guessing that when not engaged, the resultant effect over time.... is everything seems very bright. In a coloquial sense that may allow for the folk tale that doing such things make you go blind :smile:

It seems when not engaged for any reason over time... things do seem brighter as effect. Of course one however does not go blind....that is silly.

And at certain ages I'd say for a nonmonk it is practically impossible to not engage this thing in some form. Setting up a dichotomy of wrong or right, good or bad, this thing or the spiritual I would say would be unhealthful, as it sets up a habitual response of a exclusionary sort. I do not this thing I am spiritual.
I fight this thing and become pure... Just me again but I would never try to exclude as spiritual path.
That is my personal opinion for one who is as I am. Others may certainly find better personal approaches for their type. Some may exclude with great success...I don't know just know I can not do that.
In the school I have practiced in...one meditates with eyes wide open, straight ahead.

REally after all we are human. SEx is not all that important at all, but obsessing it can make it seem way way important. A monk carrying a woman on his back over a rageing stream, dropped the woman on the other side and walked on. His companion carried the woman in his mind until darkness when camping he asked the first monk if what he did was proper, carrying the woman. He responded of course....he had dropped the woman at the stream bank and you have carried her these many hours.
So that means...don't make a big deal over it nor pretend one has circumstances in which such circumstances never present. They do..but not a big deal.

To add to the other excellent comments..pick what you like.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby Heruka » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:32 am

supression is always healthy right?

acting out ones habits is always healthy right?
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby Heruka » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:34 am

ronnewmexico wrote: A monk carrying a woman on his back over a rageing stream, dropped the woman on the other side and walked on. His companion carried the woman in his mind until darkness when camping he asked the first monk if what he did was proper, carrying the woman. He responded of course....he had dropped the woman at the stream bank and you have carried her these many hours.
So that means...don't make a big deal over it nor pretend one has circumstances in which such circumstances never present. They do..but not a big deal.



LOL ron, i remember this story from old kagyu master!
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:41 am

It all depends upon circumstance.

The individuals circumstance. What works, what does not. There is no always about any of this to my opinion. I wouldn't tell anyone do this and that will happen.
But that story is largly true....the error for many(includeing me), is in creating the circumstance of carrying the woman in the mind for many hours, as opposed for the few minutes accross that raging stream.

Not all..... some may have to do other things, and not error in that fashion. That's just my experience.
That is a well known story.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby Heruka » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:46 am

yes i agree ronnie, it is good point. often meditator complains, i cannot visualize yidam in sambhogkaya ornaments in yab yum etc....yet have no problem with pam anderson in the nude!

lol
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:13 am

Off topic..but in the practice I study(but do not practice as it is way beyond my capeabilities)...desire may be elicited and enhanced not to culmination in any act but to study mind its noninherant quality and the noninherant quality of what is desired.

As fear hate and other things are used. Not to engage but to study. To the extent of being totally consumed by the thing temporarily and then withdrawing to study what it is that just was consumed.
Such all used to spiritual purpose. At the end of this particular process relating it to consideration of the me.

It's said that in the bardo state after dying, we remember the spiritual things we have experienced or learned, with the accuracy we now may remember pamala andersons body as we are so fearful at that time. As another aside.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby SonamZangpo » Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:02 am

This post was completely wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong! So, it is now gone. Gone gone gone gone gone! (Only because I don't know how to delete it :D )
Last edited by SonamZangpo on Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:14 am

Hmmm..."Also, are you saying you are an uneducated layperson as an excuse for what you are about to say afterward?"

I guess you are talking to me as I mention that term, uneducated layperson.

I..."We've had this discussion in a different thread, and you seem to be taking it here, off the topic from what was originally asked. I must request you refrain from bringing that debate here."...don't have the slightest idea to what you reference.

That's my opinion, I versed it, in response to the question.
YOu consider it to violate board rules....report it.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion on my opinion. IN fact you are quite welcome to it.
Your opinion of course....your request....no I will have none of it.
Quiet mind meditation tranquility meditation, and such things by other name, can be remedy for such things as surely as other remedy and is a process quite well founded in some buddhist traditions. So I advocate for it as a option.

Desire as a aspect(ignorant) of discerning awareness is well founded and present in certain schools of tibetan buddhism.

So I find what I advocate and mention is on point and within buddhist tradition. I could provide literature to validate that claim, if I found it necessary.

That I state I am a uneducated layperson does not infer I have no practice nor that I am not familiar with this thing of buddhism. All aspects of it...certainly not. My aspect, my study.....quite familiar.
I stand by my comment and affirm its relevence, and worth. The initial poster may contend it not. No other.
Last edited by ronnewmexico on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby ground » Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:32 am

Astus wrote:Specifically for sensual lust the antidote used is meditation on impurity (asubha bhavana). Note that it is better if you already know the basics of how to calm your mind, which is the fundamental for any meditation practice in Buddhism. Here you can find a comprehensive introduction to meditation on impurty: A Buddhist Approach to the Contemplation on Body Parts - Asubha. Here you can find it with pictures: Asubha-kammatthana.


This is certainly very effective to stop desiring anothers body. Its also effective to become disenchanted with one's own body.
I visualize beautiful women becoming older, unattractive or ugly, flabby skin, wrinkles all over, stricken by illnesses and old age. I imagine their suffering experiencing their own decay. In this way what may be an initial being attracted by sensual impression is transformed into compassion.

Kind regards
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby SonamZangpo » Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:59 am

ronnewmexico wrote:Hmmm..."Also, are you saying you are an uneducated layperson as an excuse for what you are about to say afterward?"

I guess you are talking to me as I mention that term, uneducated layperson.

I..."We've had this discussion in a different thread, and you seem to be taking it here, off the topic from what was originally asked. I must request you refrain from bringing that debate here."...don't have the slightest idea to what you reference.

That's my opinion, I versed it, in response to the question.
YOu consider it to violate board rules....report it.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion on my opinion. IN fact you are quite welcome to it.
Your opinion of course....your request....no I will have none of it.
Quiet mind meditation tranquility meditation, and such things by other name, can be remedy for such things as surely as other remedy and is a process quite well founded in some buddhist traditions. So I advocate for it as a option.

Desire as a aspect(ignorant) of discerning awareness is well founded and present in certain schools of tibetan buddhism.

So I find what I advocate and mention is on point and within buddhist tradition. I could provide literature to validate that claim, if I found it necessary.

That I state I am a uneducated layperson does not infer I have no practice nor that I am not familiar with this thing of buddhism. All aspects of it...certainly not. My aspect, my study.....quite familiar.
I stand by my comment and affirm its relevence, and worth. The initial poster may contend it not. No other.



You know, I was gravely mistaken and I would ask for apologies a thousand times if it did any good. You simply said something very similar to what someone else said on a different thread, and I had mistaken the two posts to be done by the same person. I think I'll take my serving of humble pie and go do some prostrations now :)

Also, I was not criticizing the methods you spoke on for recommendation, it was the other things relating to the decision of whether or not to cease sexual activity I found irrelevant, since the OP had made his decision to stop and felt better about it.

Again, a thousand apologies. In atonement I shall say many white tara mantras in your name to assist you in having a long life. It has sort have been a "samsara" day for me, you know? I have sustainable faith, but Bodhicitta all the time? not so much. Something to work on, I guess! :)

:namaste:
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:58 pm

This..."Also, I was not criticizing the methods you spoke on for recommendation, it was the other things relating to the decision of whether or not to cease sexual activity I found irrelevant, since the OP had made his decision to stop and felt better about it." isa misread.

If there is not any problem of any sort then why the thread. If everything is stopped and there is no problem, how can the energy be a problem. Why still Horny.....as he described.

I con't discount any remedies to this thing. A stomping of these things works for some people in these matters. Some people as are steel, a stomping has no effect. Some are as rubber a stomping has a consequent stomp back. Some are as mud when driy the stomping leaves a very real solid impresssion which will not remove until it rains....so I don't say other approaches will not work ss they may depending on how one is,their tendency of action. And not all responses on solution are a stomping.....that explains how a variance may have different application of success.

HOwever some are as I am....a very delicate flower. Such peoples find any stomping, stomps the aspect of flower they are. Suchly a aspect of beauty is thusly stomped, they are all flower. So if one is as I am a stomping of this thing of sex makes no sense.

The aemrican sitcom Seinfeld, a comedy about nothing(and early on a bit spiritual at times as is all good comedy)has four characters in their mid thirties,regular folk like you or me, engage in a bet to stop wanking. Three men and one female. LOng story short, in a week, all find themselves wanking.
The female upon seeing John F Kennedy junior(at that time still alive) at a spa. Inversely is the date of one of the four who is a virgin and does not think at all of these things. And is the circumstance that when they try to force this thing a naked women is found to be doing yoga directly opposite their apartment windows. Working against the foreeing.

So at a young age though this is temporarily stopped, a young male.....I'd guess as hornieness attests....this is not over. Hence the thread.
If someone verses in post he is going to swim the english channel despite having just learned to swim last week and asked what swim stroke to use, I will verse politely that things may not work out that way. It is technically off point...but really it is not. If he takes exception I will appologize and withdraw content. Not another advocating for opiinion, mine opposed to another, and then claiming off point.

There are many approaches. I will elaborate mine. I advocate for silent miind meditation focusing on a object of concentration to exclusion of thought.When accomplished, 20 minutes or so without actively thinking, then one can study the picture of sex to find what it is that desires this thing,
With such study one will find the energy that presents as sex is really just discerning awareness aspect of differentiation solidified as concept. As thought directs our reality such conclusion of personal observation will result in view on this sexual energy changing the actuality of the perception of this thing.
Sex energy will become other energy.

So the question is answered about the energy.
Advanced tantric practice utilizing internal winds and channels for remediation.....I do not advocate for such a thing, it would be unwise and would not achieve this result.
Tummo could be employed suchly if one was such a advanced practitioner....I am certain. Thouigh tummo is not focused on remediation, the successful practice would have that auxiliary result...the transformation of sexual energy located in this place of the body to another presentation

So if that is off point....so be it. Moderator then delete my comment. I don't care.

Other comments are on this post excellent. I do not want to imply they are stomping, that is but a example of variance to remedy given. My remedy is offered as valid as any other. Prove it not, and I withdraw it. Till then not a word of it is withdrawn.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby Heruka » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:50 am

ronnewmexico wrote:the transformation of sexual energy located in this place of the body to another presentation
.



tantra is transforming someting into something it is not, better to say horny energy, is horney energy, is energy.. and let it be what it is, and watch it go by, horney energy self liberates, without action on it.

horney would need an opposite/enemy image to react upon.......lol



what??? :rolling:



maybe its true?

who knows?
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby kvakamak » Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:16 pm

I will probably have to find some good practicing girl hope she will not involve me into attachement and more samsaric things.Do you know some ;) ?
I agree it is quiet individual and for one is better to have girlfriend and to one its better to be alone dharma practicioner.
Bdw. I am monk who carry woman for many hours after crossing stream :emb:
Does anybody have helful,good and practicing girlfriend which helps you on path ?
Thank you.Wish all best. :smile:
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby Inge » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:16 pm

Is sexual energy the same as desire?

I just read about desire in "Creation & Completion" by the first Jamgon Kontrul:

"Methods of controlling afflictive emotions can be subsumed into three: rejection, transformation, and recognition. Recejting these emotions is the ordinary approach of the sutras. Desire is renounced through contemplation on repulsiveness, hatred through contemplation on love, and stupidity through meditation on interdependent relationship."

"The uncommon approach of Mantra is to transform afflictive emotions.
When desire arises, you meditate on Amithaba or a deity such as Heruka in union.
The desirous thought is transformed into the deity.
The other deluded emotions are treated in the same way."
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby ground » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:05 am

Inge wrote:Is sexual energy the same as desire?

I'd say it is sankhara. But as consciousness arises from sankhara based on not-knowing there arises the thought "sexual energy".

Inge wrote:"The uncommon approach of Mantra is to transform afflictive emotions.

If sankhara rests in its own place then there is nothing to transform.

Kind regards
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Re: Sexual energy

Postby kvakamak » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:07 pm

Hello Friends

I am here again with some questions about sexuality because it is very actual for me.How practicioner should work with the sexuality and what kind of practices you can do when it comes to you ? Is it good to overcome any kind of sexual thinks,actions and feelings or is it good to tel it arise.I dont mean sexuality with women which is alright when both the partners are OK.

I want to ask you your own experiences from your life hm ?

Thank you

Kmak ;)
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