the great vegetarian debate

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby LastLegend » Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:23 pm

I bought a dutch oven iron cast so I will experimenting with roasted brown nice and beans. Perhaps curry power, sesame seeds and a little sea salt. I am not exactly a vegetarian yet still working toward it. Choice of vegetables-red bell peppers, onion, and japenos.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby ronnewmexico » Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:09 pm

On that note..I find a pressure cooker a great aid :smile: .

Rice by the book may be a bit tricky. But if you do as I do and simply put stew in the cooker throw in a handful of rice it seems to get done quite nicely.
Beans are at home in a pressure cooker...it is way way faster and I'd guess thusly way more energy efficient.
If environmental concern in part of your vegetarian choice, that may be a consideration.

10 minutes bean time cooking in pressure cooker is I'd say about equal to 45 minutes regular slow simmer.
Beans and rice thrown in together....seems to cook quite nicely. Not to much rice though it foams.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:08 pm

Ryoto wrote:I have tried vegetarianism many times and have always failed. Any tips on how to have success for a person with strong cravings for meat?


There are numerous meat substitutes out in the market that have a similar taste and texture, but without any animal or animal products. Veggie burgers, veggie deli slices, seitan, etc. We have served some of the meat substitutes to meat eaters and they couldn't tell the difference, especially the deli slices.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Huifeng » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:38 am

Ryoto wrote:I have tried vegetarianism many times and have always failed. Any tips on how to have success for a person with strong cravings for meat?


Give it a bit of time, for the meaty toxins to be purged from the body.
And reflect that "meat" is just a dead animal, which is kind of gross if you think about it like that.

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:43 am

Agree with those and other suggestions. My continual impetus......a reminder, keeping in mind whenever it is thought to do other..... the great suffering of the animals who are killed particularly in the western form of animal food gathering.

I simply cannot do intentional harm when other path is possible to not do harm...works for me always.

Friends family gatherings and all that....just came from one in which the host and many of the peoples are in some manner related to the cattle industry, owning cattle or living on range land...they all honor my preference, find it quite interesting perhaps curious but never would they have me change it.
It is now known, as me....as I am.

They like me. More important to them is that I am happy in their presence,then what I eat it is so unimportant. After a while it becomes like that.
Who amongst them american meat eaters of the most vehement sort becomes a bit tired if all are the same....and then they appreciate difference.... it is different and thusly interesting to them....if presented as not threating and in a acceptable manner.
Learning how to present it may be a bit of a trick at first but with time and persistance it is found.
Then they are happy and we are happy..... friends they care not what we eat they care we are happy and happy with what we eat.

It comes to that...always. I have and known the roughest toughest hombres, who honor my way of eating. NO problem as long as I don't get carried away or funny with it...I have learned not to.

But thinking of harm, it is always that for me. Like me...it is easily that for you as well. If not like me....other suggestion may be preferable.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby ground » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:47 am

David N. Snyder wrote:
Ryoto wrote:I have tried vegetarianism many times and have always failed. Any tips on how to have success for a person with strong cravings for meat?


There are numerous meat substitutes out in the market that have a similar taste and texture, but without any animal or animal products. Veggie burgers, veggie deli slices, seitan, etc. We have served some of the meat substitutes to meat eaters and they couldn't tell the difference, especially the deli slices.


Initially it may help to abandon meat eating but actually it just cultivation of the same old attachment to taste.

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby ground » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:50 am

Ryoto wrote:Well I follow four out of five precepts quite well which includes the first precept of non killing...

Meat eating cannot be equated to killing but it can be equated to causing harm for others.

But keeping the precepts and cultivating compassion and samadhi on the basis of that will lead to reduction of cravings for the taste of meat.


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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby LastLegend » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:36 am

Roast your rice preferably brown rice before you cook it.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Kyosan » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:07 pm

LastLegend wrote:Roast your rice preferably brown rice before you cook it.

I do that sometimes. It makes the rice very tasty. It doesn't have to be roasted long though; and it's probably better nutritionally if it isn't. It can be roasted dry in a pan, but I usually lightly fry it in oil. That's a good option for me, because my diet is low in fat and some added fat is welcome.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Nighthawk » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:52 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
Ryoto wrote:I have tried vegetarianism many times and have always failed. Any tips on how to have success for a person with strong cravings for meat?


There are numerous meat substitutes out in the market that have a similar taste and texture, but without any animal or animal products. Veggie burgers, veggie deli slices, seitan, etc. We have served some of the meat substitutes to meat eaters and they couldn't tell the difference, especially the deli slices.


This is some pretty practical advice. I'll give it another shot and see how it goes. Thanks.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Nighthawk » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:57 pm

TMingyur wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:
Ryoto wrote:I have tried vegetarianism many times and have always failed. Any tips on how to have success for a person with strong cravings for meat?


There are numerous meat substitutes out in the market that have a similar taste and texture, but without any animal or animal products. Veggie burgers, veggie deli slices, seitan, etc. We have served some of the meat substitutes to meat eaters and they couldn't tell the difference, especially the deli slices.


Initially it may help to abandon meat eating but actually it just cultivation of the same old attachment to taste.

Kind regards


I'm not really concerned with attachments as long as I can reduce the suffering of beings and improve my health in the process.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Kyosan » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:31 am

Ryoto wrote:I'm not really concerned with attachments as long as I can reduce the suffering of beings and improve my health in the process.

If using fake meats enables you to become a vegetarian and reduce animals suffering immediately, it's a good thing. Attachments to food is something you can work on later.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:25 am

I'm attached to food and eating, I have this crazy idea that if I don't eat I will die. I'm trying to track down the source of this bizarre thought pattern but haven't found it yet.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:26 pm

I recall something, I think from Nagarjuna's Letter To A Friend: "Regard all food as medicine" meaning that one does not become attached (impute meaning) into what one eats. One does not become concerned over the flavor or appearance of food, but merely regards it as something for the health of the body.

A friend of mine, a lama now maintains a vegetarian diet (as is the custom now among most Kagyu buddhists). But he used to eat meat. He used to say that this established a connection between the eater and the animal, which made one's aspirations for the animal that much more effective, adding "If buddhists don't pray for the animal who is being eaten, who will?"

I can see the reasoning behind this. I can also see where some people might regard this as an easy excuse for wanting to eat meat. But This lama is not one who goes looking for easy excuses. This was a sincere belief. What do you think?
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:49 pm

One can also make a karmic connection to an animal by saving it from from being slaughtered and eaten.

That's what the practice: Essence of Benefit and Joy by Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Thaye is all about.

You can buy it here http://www.namsebangdzo.com/Essence_of_ ... p/5324.htm

And I have an electronic version of it available here for download http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9844773/Essence ... it.rar.exe for whoever wishes.
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Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Kyosan » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:06 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:I'm attached to food and eating, I have this crazy idea that if I don't eat I will die. I'm trying to track down the source of this bizarre thought pattern but haven't found it yet.
:namaste:

I take it that you don't believe in breatharianism.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Kyosan » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:19 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:One can also make a karmic connection to an animal by saving it from from being slaughtered and eaten.

That's what the practice: Essence of Benefit and Joy by Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Thaye is all about.

You can buy it here http://www.namsebangdzo.com/Essence_of_ ... p/5324.htm

And I have an electronic version of it available here for download http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9844773/Essence ... it.rar.exe for whoever wishes.
:namaste:

I agree.

And what are these karmic connections from eating meat? Could it be that in a future life, the animal who was eaten is afraid of the person who ate him? Or could it be that in a future life the person is an animal and the animal is a person, and the person eats the animal? I see both of these as being negative; it would be interesting to see examples of positive karmic connections that are beneficial.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Malcolm » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:57 pm

Kyosan wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:One can also make a karmic connection to an animal by saving it from from being slaughtered and eaten.

That's what the practice: Essence of Benefit and Joy by Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Thaye is all about.

You can buy it here http://www.namsebangdzo.com/Essence_of_ ... p/5324.htm

And I have an electronic version of it available here for download http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9844773/Essence ... it.rar.exe for whoever wishes.
:namaste:

I agree.

And what are these karmic connections from eating meat? Could it be that in a future life, the animal who was eaten is afraid of the person who ate him? Or could it be that in a future life the person is an animal and the animal is a person, and the person eats the animal? I see both of these as being negative; it would be interesting to see examples of positive karmic connections that are beneficial.
:namaste:


If you use the proper method, and maintain awareness while eating meat, that animal will be reborn as your student when you achieve awakening.

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:15 pm

Which is one reason amongst some others viewpoints..... is why tibetan buddhists have eaten meat even though being buddhist. To include monastic.
There exists a tibetan religious viewpoint of complexity which reduces the conceived harm from such a item.

Lower view...no meat, higher view...meat acceptable for reason. Something of that sort.
Not to say or imply any dinegration of that view. It is not mine but it holds equal import and some others may hold that as well. :smile:
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Kyosan » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:31 pm

Namdrol wrote:If you use the proper method, and maintain awareness while eating meat, that animal will be reborn as your student when you achieve awakening.

N

Thanks for answering my question Namdrol. I'm not doubting that you are right about this; there is probably someplace in Buddhist literature that says this. But there must be better ways to start a student/teacher relationship. :lol: I'm nice to my 2 pomeranians, so maybe sometime in the future I'll be their teacher and teach them the Dharma. Or maybe they'll be my teacher. :lol: ronnewmexico seems to have a way with wild animals; they sometimes stay with him and follow him around. Maybe he'll have many of his current animal friends as students one day. And he is vegan.
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