Hua Hu Jing

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: Hua Hu Jing

Postby tobes » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:46 pm

Simon E. wrote:My critique ? :D
Despite your best efforts to imbue me with the means and ends of academe i am afraid that I remain both ignorant of and unconvinced by its allure in the resolutely ( or so it seems to me ) pragmatic and experiential sphere of dharma practice.
My critique of Taoism is that it not Buddhidharma...I have no interest in its history or in the evolution of its ideas.
The actualisation of one spiritual path is more than a challenge to me.
I am a simple soul.


You might be a simple soul, but you have proposed that it is clearly a problem to post Taoist content on a Mahayana board. All I'm saying is that, yes, of course they are distinct, but there has been much interesting resonance and discontinuity. What word do think was initially used to translate 'dharma' into Chinese?

If you have no interest in its history or ideas, then why do you care?

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Re: Hua Hu Jing

Postby LastLegend » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:49 pm

It's called trolling. :rolling:
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Re: Hua Hu Jing

Postby Simon E. » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:49 am

tobes wrote:
Simon E. wrote:My critique ? :D
Despite your best efforts to imbue me with the means and ends of academe i am afraid that I remain both ignorant of and unconvinced by its allure in the resolutely ( or so it seems to me ) pragmatic and experiential sphere of dharma practice.
My critique of Taoism is that it not Buddhidharma...I have no interest in its history or in the evolution of its ideas.
The actualisation of one spiritual path is more than a challenge to me.
I am a simple soul.


You might be a simple soul, but you have proposed that it is clearly a problem to post Taoist content on a Mahayana board. All I'm saying is that, yes, of course they are distinct, but there has been much interesting resonance and discontinuity. What word do think was initially used to translate 'dharma' into Chinese?

If you have no interest in its history or ideas, then why do you care?

:anjali:

I care that sincere seekers who are interested in dharma but not yet familiar with it might mistake neo~ Taoism for dharma.
I have told the story before .
A friend had a section of his phd dissertation devoted to Taoism, and in particular it's modern presentation

He reached the conclusion that Taoism did not in fact exist. Probably never has beyond a ragbag of disperate ideas. And that if it does exist he hates it. :smile:
Whatever the truth of that, Taoism is not Dharma.
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Re: Hua Hu Jing

Postby Simon E. » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:57 am

LastLegend wrote:It's called trolling. :rolling:

That's caledd ad homming. But that's ok if it's all you have in your locker.
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Re: Hua Hu Jing

Postby tobes » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:52 am

Simon E. wrote:I care that sincere seekers who are interested in dharma but not yet familiar with it might mistake neo~ Taoism for dharma.
I have told the story before .
A friend had a section of his phd dissertation devoted to Taoism, and in particular it's modern presentation

He reached the conclusion that Taoism did not in fact exist. Probably never has beyond a ragbag of disperate ideas. And that if it does exist he hates it. :smile:
Whatever the truth of that, Taoism is not Dharma.


That doesn't sound like a very well founded basis to proselytize for a purified Dharma purged of any non-Buddhist influences. However I do believe that you sincerely care in the way that you say you do. I suppose my objection - and thus the cause of the disagreement between us - is that I sincerely care to rescue sincere seekers interested in dharma from the utter fantasy, construct and fiction that there is such a thing as Buddhism and Buddha-Dharma in a self-enclosed vacuum, separate and independent from a multiplicity of Other discourses, practices et al. i.e. if you really want to know, study and practice Buddhism, you need to see its various contexts, rather than cover them up or deny that they exist.

Why we 'need' this fantasy of a pure Buddhism is an interesting question. Maybe worth a new thread on the topic??

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Re: Hua Hu Jing

Postby Simon E. » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:55 am

Good luck with your mission sir.



TobesI feel honour bound to say that I really don't mind what you find useful in dharmic terms. And I really don't mind whether you find useful what I find useful.
We are not going to find a form of words to convince each other of anything..and that as far as I am concerned is fine and dandy. :smile:
Last edited by Simon E. on Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hua Hu Jing

Postby tobes » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:56 am

Simon E. wrote:Good luck with your mission sir.


And you.

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Re: Hua Hu Jing

Postby Simon E. » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:01 am

I added a bit.
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