Origins of Amitabha

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Malcolm » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:46 am

Son of Buddha wrote:then the same can be said about those in amitayus pureland because they are not enlightened they have not eradicated all unusayas they are also still apart of the triple realm.



Actually, the point of Amitabha's "pureland" (the term is a misnomer which derives from Chinese Buddhism) is that one does not even have to be a stream entrant to be reborn there. This, of course, is the general appeal of Buddhakṣetra buddhafields doctrine of Mahāyāna (for example, Sukhavati), as opposed to the Pure Abodes common to the Shravaka schools.

A buddhakṣetra does not require stream entry or attainment of the first bhumi, or anything beyond faith in the Buddha that cultivated that buddhafield. It is the same for Bhaisajyaguru's buddhafield, Akoṣobhya's, and so on.

It is difficult to say that the buddhafields are part of samsara. They are more like an inverse image of purgatory.

N
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Malcolm » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:47 am

Son of Buddha wrote:the pureabode isnt apart of the 3 realms of samsarasan its a place of NON RETURN NONE RETROGRESSION,



Perhaps in Theravada it is not considered part of the three realms. However, in Sarvastivada it is.

N
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Son of Buddha » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:51 am

mister G

have you took time to look up the 5 fetters???
identity view
DOUBT
adherence to rules and observances
sensual desire
ill will

these are the 5 fetters also check out the 3 pureland sutras the 5 BURNINGS you will see they are the same thing only in the 3 pureland its not WHAT U HAVE TO DO TO GET THEIR.

also note you are forgeting that you are EXCLUDED from the pureland of amitayus if u COMMIT(future tense) the 5 greatest evils and abuse the right dharma
after you have accepted the pureland
do you need the passages????ONLY those who have done these things and NEVER heard of amitayus can recite his name at the death bed and go past these sins for us who HAVE heard the name of amitayus and KNOW his teachings must follow the eradication of 5 BURNINGS and not fall behind otherts in following the precepts and faith.

peave and love
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Malcolm » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:51 am

Son of Buddha wrote:
majjhima nikaya mahasihanada sutta 12 the pureabodes is not apart of the 5 transmigations of rebirth in fact once u get to the pureabodes u dont EVER have to be reborn again verse57-59



Once you get to the Pure abodes you never have to be reborn in the desire realm again -- that is the meaning of "never-returner", as opposed to say "once returner". It does not mean that the pure abodes are not in the triple realm. They are.

N
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Son of Buddha » Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:00 am

Namdrol wrote:
Son of Buddha wrote:then the same can be said about those in amitayus pureland because they are not enlightened they have not eradicated all unusayas they are also still apart of the triple realm.



Actually, the point of Amitabha's "pureland" (the term is a misnomer which derives from Chinese Buddhism) is that one does not even have to be a stream entrant to be reborn there. This, of course, is the general appeal of Buddhakṣetra buddhafields doctrine of Mahāyāna (for example, Sukhavati), as opposed to the Pure Abodes common to the Shravaka schools.

A buddhakṣetra does not require stream entry or attainment of the first bhumi, or anything beyond faith in the Buddha that cultivated that buddhafield. It is the same for Bhaisajyaguru's buddhafield, Akoṣobhya's, and so on.

It is difficult to say that the buddhafields are part of samsara. They are more like an inverse image of purgatory.

N


hey namdrol
your not understanding what i am saying,NOT ALL purelands are the same it is true for amitayus pureland that one is born their and does not have to be a stream entrant that is his VOWS,what you are not getting is their are MANY DIFFERENT purelands with many different vows and manners of entry

you are trying to make ALL mahayana purelands the SAME amitayus pureland is not like medicine masters pureland,read the lotus sutra their are MANY pureland mentioned in iut and they are ALL different in aspects of entry
the same goes for thervadan purelands just like ALL the other purelands in mahayana it is different from amitayus pureland in manners of entry it still doesnt take away that it is a pureland just like comparing amitayus pureland to medicine masters pureland doesnt take away that medicine masters pureland IS STILL A PURELAND it may not be better set up than amitayus(differnt VOWS) it is STILL a PURELAND :) see what i mean?????
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Son of Buddha » Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:08 am

i ahve to go to work now simply said ALL PURELAND/PUREABODES is a PLACE OF NON RETROGRESSION where if(one choses)can stay their till they reach enlightenemnt and NEVER be reborn to any of of the 5 paths of transmigation

also if you read the 5 fetters NAMDROL you would see this person has already destroyed the 3 EVIL PATHS and goes to the pureabodes(pureland)to further reach enlightenmet

just like all people who are in amitayus pureland are NOT born Buddhas but will reach enlightenment their and ROOT out the rest of what thbey need to destroy to become enlightened

which in thervadan is the OTHER 5 fetters(10 in total)

in BOTh thervadan/and mahayana being in the pureland/pureabode doesnt make u a Buddha it is a place where you u practice UNHINDERED by the 3 EVIL PATHS and PRACTICE further to become enlightened(read all the 10 fetters)

in the pureland u still have to learn and practice to becoem a Buddha peace and love
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Son of Buddha » Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:15 am

the 3 evil paths are destrpoyed when the 5 fetters are destroyed which is why it is NOT apart of the 3 evil existances or apart of samsarasan

in thervadan preland the last things to root out are the last 5 fetters(the first 5fetters are already destroyed)
and the same can be said for mahayana pureland their is STILL SOMETHINGS that needs to be destroyed in the pureland of amitayus before u can becoem a Buddha other wise u would be born as one NOPE their is still some "fetters" that need to be rooted out which is why you still; have things toi learn in the pureland of amitaytus no differtnt than the pureabodes of the thervadan tradition

DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND NOW???????
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Malcolm » Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:27 am

Son of Buddha wrote:
DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND NOW???????


We already understood.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Virgo » Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:35 am

Son of Buddha wrote:the 3 evil paths are destrpoyed when the 5 fetters are destroyed which is why it is NOT apart of the 3 evil existances or apart of samsarasan

in thervadan preland the last things to root out are the last 5 fetters(the first 5fetters are already destroyed)

The only thing that needs to be rooted out is the 1'st fetter (and along with that two others are automatically removed forever). After that, the remaining fetters will automatically be removed by the level of prajna; they exist in a soil which will no longer support them
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Virgo » Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:45 am

Son of Buddha wrote:the 3 evil paths are destrpoyed when the 5 fetters are destroyed which is why it is NOT apart of the 3 evil existances or apart of samsarasan

in thervadan preland the last things to root out are the last 5 fetters(the first 5fetters are already destroyed)
and the same can be said for mahayana pureland their is STILL SOMETHINGS that needs to be destroyed in the pureland of amitayus before u can becoem a Buddha other wise u would be born as one NOPE their is still some "fetters" that need to be rooted out which is why you still; have things toi learn in the pureland of amitaytus no differtnt than the pureabodes of the thervadan tradition

DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND NOW???????

That's fine but the pure abodes as per Theravada are still part of samsara (no one is reborn in nibbana-- if you are reborn at all it is an existence in samsara, although a purified existence).

Mahayana Purelands are a lot different dude.

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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Mr. G » Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:02 pm

Son of Buddha wrote:mister G

have you took time to look up the 5 fetters???
identity view
DOUBT
adherence to rules and observances
sensual desire
ill will

these are the 5 fetters also check out the 3 pureland sutras the 5 BURNINGS you will see they are the same thing only in the 3 pureland its not WHAT U HAVE TO DO TO GET THEIR.

also note you are forgeting that you are EXCLUDED from the pureland of amitayus if u COMMIT(future tense) the 5 greatest evils and abuse the right dharma
after you have accepted the pureland
do you need the passages????ONLY those who have done these things and NEVER heard of amitayus can recite his name at the death bed and go past these sins for us who HAVE heard the name of amitayus and KNOW his teachings must follow the eradication of 5 BURNINGS and not fall behind otherts in following the precepts and faith.

peave and love


Hi Son of Buddha,

I understand what the fetters are, and I know the passage in the Meditation Sutra you are referring to:

The lowest level of the lowest grade: evildoers who commit the gravest
offenses, which would bring them the retribution of suffering in hell. Before
death they meet a good teacher, who urges them to call the Name of Amitābha.
As they repeat the Name ten times, their evil karma is extinguished. When they
die they see before them golden lotus flowers that bring them to the Pure Land.
After twelve great kalpas the flowers open; then they can hear the Mahayana
teachings and awaken aspiration for enlightenment.


What you're attempting to do is extrapolate Theravadan tenets to Mahayana tenets. It doesn't correlate. Why? Eliminating the 5 fetters will get you to Tushita. You do not need to eliminate any fetters to get to Sukhavati. A Pure Land is not equivalent to Pure Abodes. There is nothing in Theravadan literature where a Pure Abode is equal to a Mahayana Pure Land.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Mr. G » Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:04 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Son of Buddha wrote:
DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND NOW???????


We already understood.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Zenshin 善心 » Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:13 am

Dechen Norbu wrote:
dumbbombu wrote:i don't know, and i can only really speak from personal experience but there comes a time when i pause to ask myself - has the path i'm treading had a real, positive and life-changing effect on myself and the relationship i have with those around me? if i can answer yes, then the importance of a question such as "authentic Buddism or not?" falls away for me.

now excuse me while i run for cover and hide.

:lol: There's no need for hiding!
But notice that psychotherapy can also do that to one's life. You may become a more adjusted human being, deal better with stress, family, friends, work, you name it. Of course this is usually excellent, but I say usually because many things that make us cling even tighter to samsara also produce those effects. We feel better, change our life, build better relations and so on and so forth. However, you won't attain enlightenment through them. Neither through "inauthentic Buddhism". This is the crux of the matter. Sometimes what is hard is to distinguish what is and what isn't Buddhadharma and by this I mean teachings that can lead one to enlightenment (even if using this word loosely). But I guess this discussion is a bit off topic... :smile:


yes true, and i'm not sure i'm brave enough to venture down that rabbit-hole just yet...that said, if you want to split to a new thread then i guess i'm game *gulp* :smile:
All beings since their first aspiration till the attainment of Buddhahood are sheltered under the guardianship of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas who, responding to the requirements of the occasion, transform themselves and assume the actual forms of personality.

Thus for the sake of all beings Buddhas and Bodhisattvas become sometimes their parents, sometimes their wives and children, sometimes their kinsmen, sometimes their servants, sometimes their friends, sometimes their enemies, sometimes reveal themselves as devas or in some other forms.


- Ashvaghosa, The Awakening of Faith

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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Dechen Norbu » Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:53 pm

That's a nice idea. So here you have the new topic. :smile:

:anjali:
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Son of Buddha » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:20 am

hey MR G
What you're attempting to do is extrapolate Theravadan tenets to Mahayana tenets. It doesn't correlate. Why? Eliminating the 5 fetters will get you to Tushita. You do not need to eliminate any fetters to get to Sukhavati. A Pure Land is not equivalent to Pure Abodes. There is nothing in Theravadan literature where a Pure Abode is equal to a Mahayana Pure Land.[/quote]

actually im attempting to show others (on topic) the origins of amiyabha and his pureland. it seems that many are trying compare him to zorerastorism (azura mazda) and it seems we are trying to look outside Buddhism to explain why amithba Buddha and his pureland came into being.

instead im merely trying to say instead of comparing amithaba Buddha and his pureland to ORIGINS OUTSIDE of Buddhism all im trying to show is that the CONCEPT of pureland and amitayus CAN and is in Buddhidm (ALL FORMS of Buddhism)

instead of looking for a "land" (OUTSIDE of Buddhism)that their is NO RETROGRESSION,and a land where their is NO anger or sensual desire,where Buddhist go and stay till they reach enlightnement,instead of trying to FIND this in other religions to explain where our Buddha and OUR pureland came from. why are we not trying to find this in our own "supposed" oldest documents????

you do realise that ifthe CONCEPT of amitabha buddha and his pureland is supported in ALL of Buddhism then it shows the ATHENTICITY of this teaching and CANNOT be claimed to be a COPY of anouther religion,although if the CONCEPT of the pureland cannot be found in ALL scriptures of Buddhism(palicanon to mahayana canon)then one might say it is not Buddhism in CONCEPT or practice.

i also have anouther message for you ill send from the kyunda nikaya(spelled wrong)
peace and love

all im saying is look for the CONCEPT of this in ALL our scriptures,not outside our beautiful faith
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Son of Buddha » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:31 am

What you're attempting to do is extrapolate Theravadan tenets to Mahayana tenets. It doesn't correlate. Why? Eliminating the 5 fetters will get you to Tushita. You do not need to eliminate any fetters to get to Sukhavati. A Pure Land is not equivalent to Pure Abodes. There is nothing in Theravadan literature where a Pure Abode is equal to a Mahayana Pure Land.[/quote]

in the majjhima nikaya alagaddupama sutta 22
"those who have sufficient FAITH in me,sufficient LOVE for me,ARE ALL HEADED FOR HEAVEN
all you need is faith and love to get to tushita in thervadan

THIS IS THE APADANA SUTTA FROM THE KUNDHYA NIKAYA this is the CONCEPT of the pureland in thervadan(pali)
1. Now, with a pure mind, attend to .the Tradition of the previous excellent deeds of the Buddhas, the innumerable kings of righteousness, replete with thirty Perfections.

2. To the supreme enlightenment of the best of the Buddhas, to leaders of the world together with their Orders, I bowed down paying homage with joined hands.

3. In the Buddha-realm, as many as are there the numerous jewels, both in the heaven above and on the earth below, I brought all to my mind.

4. There on a silvery ground, I built a palace, many storied, jewelled, raised high to the sky,

5. Having ornamented pillars, well executed, well divided and arranged, costly, a mass of gold, decorated with arched gateways and canopies.

6. The first storey was of lapis lazuli, shining like a bright piece of cloud; there were (the presentations of) lotuses and lilies strewn over in the excellent golden storey.

7. Some (of the storeys) was of corals, some having coral-lustre, some shining red, while others resembling the Indagopaka-colour, illumined the quarters.

8. They had doors, portals and windows well divided and arranged, four net-works of vedikas and a delightful perfumed enclosure.

9. And they were provided with the excellent peaked roofs blue, yellow, red, white and bright black and decorated with seven varieties of jewels.

10. They had (devices of) lotuses of graceful looks, and were beautified by (the figures of) beasts and birds of prey, filled with (the presentations of) planets and stars, and adorned with (those of) the moon and sun.

11. They were covered over with a golden netting joined with the golden tinkling bells, and the lovely golden garlands (on them) sounded musically by the force of the wind.

12. Festoons of banners, raised on them, were made- lovely by various colours crimson, red, yellow and gold-coloured.

13. Diverse, numerous, many hundreds were the slabs, made of silver, of jewels, of rubies, and also of emeralds.

14. The palace was resplendent with various beds, and covered with soft Benares fabrics, rugs, silk made of the Dukula-fibre, China cloth, fine cloth, fibrous garments, whitish garments, and all this manifold covering I spread out there in my mind.

15. Adorned with jewelled peaked roofs in different storeys (the palace) stood firm, bearing torches shining like gems.

16. The wooden posts and pillars and the beautiful golden gates, made of gold brought from the Jambu river, of excellent (adra) wood, and also of silver, shone forth.

17. Divided and arranged into .many breaks 5 and resplendent with doors and cross-bars (the palace had) on both sides many full vases filled with red, white and blue lotuses.

18. All the Buddhas of the past, the leaders of the world, together with their Orders and disciples, I created in their natural beauty and appearance.

19. Entering by that entrance, all the Buddhas together with their disciples - the circle of the elect - sat down on golden seats.

20. The pre-eminent Buddhas that are now in the world, those of the past and present, I brought them all into the mansion.

21. Many hundreds of Paccekabuddhas, self-enlightened and invincible, those of the past and present, I brought them all into the mansion.

22. Many wishing trees, divine and earthly, there were; I procured all garments and covered (them each) with three robes.

23. Filling the beautiful jewelled bowls, I offered (them) ready-made food, hard and soft, eatable and savoury, as well as drink and meal.

24. Procuring divine garments, I provided them with robes of fine cloth; I entertained the whole circle of the elect with best food and (the four) sweet drinks of sugar, oil, honey and molasses.

25. Entering the jewelled chamber, they, like lions lying down in caves, lay down in a lion's posture on costly beds.

26. Mindful they rose and sat down cross-legged; they gave themselves up to delight in meditation on the way of all the Buddhas.

27. Some preached the doctrines, some sported by their supernormal power, some who had gained mastery over and developed the higher psychic perception, applied themselves to it, while others numbering many hundred thousands worked transformations of themselves by their supernormal power.

28. The Buddhas, too, questioned (other) Buddhas on points relating to omniscience, and comprehended by their knowledge matters, deep and subtle,

29. The disciples questioned the Buddhas, the Buddhas questioned the disciples; they questioned each other, to each other did they explain.

30. The Buddhas, the Paccekabuddhas, the disciples and attendants, enjoying thus their delightful pursuits, rejoiced at the palace.

31. 'May they hold over head (each) an umbrella, embroidered with gold and silver nets and gems, and fringed with nets of pearls !

32. May there be awnings, resplendent with golden stars, variegated, and having flower-wreaths spread over (them) ; may they all hold them over head !

33. Be (the palace) laid out with wreaths of flowers, fragrant with rows of perfumes, strewn over with festoons of garments, and bedecked with strings of jewels !

34. Be it strewn over with flowers, much variegated, incensed with sweet perfumes, marked with five-finger marks of perfumes, and covered over with a golden covering.

35. On four sides, be the tanks covered over with lotuses red and white and blue ; be that these having lotus-pollens coming out, appear in golden hue !

36. All trees be blossomed around the palace, and let them drooping themselves sprinkle perfutoed flowers over the mansion.

37. Let the crested (peacocks) dance there, divine swans utter melodious sounds. Let the Karavika birds, too, sing out and the flocks of birds be on all sides .

38. Let all drums be sounded, all lutes be played. Let all varieties of music go on around the palace.

39. As far as the Buddha-realm, and above the horizons of the world, magnificent, lustrous, faultless and jewelled,

40. Let the golden divans be; let candlesticks be lighted, and the ten thousand (worlds) in succession be of one lustre.

41. Let also courtesans, dancers and celestial nymphs dance, and various theatres be staged around the palace.

42. On tree-tops, mountain-tops, or on the summit of the Sineru mountain, let me raise all manners of banners, variegated and five-coloured.

43. Let men, Nagas, Gandhabbas and gods, all approach them paying homage with joined hands, and surround the palace.'

44. Whatever good deed done, ought to be done, or intended to be done by me, I did it well by body, speech and mind in (the abode of) the Thirty.

45. 'The beings who are conscious or unconscious, let all share in the result of the meritorious deed done by me.

46. To (them) whom the result of the meritorious deed done by me has been offered, it is (thus) made well known. And to those who do not know of it, the gods should go and report.

47. In the whole world, the beings that live but for the sake of food, let them obtain all manners of agreeable food by my heart's wish'

48. Mentally I offered the gift, mentally I brought the palace. I did homage to all the supreme Buddhas, Paccekas and disciples of the conquerors.

49. By that meritorious deed, will and resolve, I. abandoning the human body, went up to the Thirty-three.

50. I have come to know (only) of the two existences, divine and human; no other destiny have I experienced this is the fulfilment of my mental wish.

51. I have been superior to the gods, I have become the lord of men. Endowed with beauty and appearance, I am incomparable in the world in respect of wisdom.

52. Food of various kinds and best, jewels not inadequate, and garments of all fashions come to me quickly from above (lit. the sky).

53. On earth as well as mountain, in the air, water and wood, wherever I stretch forth my hand, divine eatables come to me.

54. On earth as well as mountain, in the air, water and wood, wherever I stretch forth my hand, all varieties of jewels come to me.

55. On earth as well as mountain, in the air, water and wood, wherever I stretch forth my hand, all kinds of perfumes come to me.

56. On earth as well as mountain, in the air, water and wood, wherever I stretch forth my hand, all kinds of vehicles come to me.

57. On earth as well as mountain, in the air, water and wood, wherever I stretch forth my hand, all kinds of garlands come to me.

58. On earth as well as mountain, in the air, water and wood, wherever I stretch forth my hand, (all manners of) decorations come to me.

59. On earth as well as mountain, in the air, water and wood, wherever I stretch forth my hand, maidens of all descriptions come to me.

60. On earth as well as mountain, in the air, water and wood, wherever I stretch forth my hand, come (to me) honey and sugar.

61. Oil earth as well as mountain, in the air, water and wood, wherever I stretch forth my hand, all varieties of solid food come to me.

62. To the poor and needy, to the professional and street-beggars, what-ever excellent gift I made, (it was) for the attainment of the Enlightenment par excellence.

63. While making mountains and rocks roar, dense forest thunder, this world and heaven joyous, I have become a Buddha in the world.

64. In this world, tenfold is the direction of which there is no end, and in that direction are the innumerable Buddha-realms.

65. My halo is described as shooting forth rays in pairs; let the blaze of rays between them be of great effulgence.

66. In such world-system, let all persons see me let all be joyful, and let all follow me.

67. Let the drum of immortality be beaten with reverberating sweet-sound; in the midst of it let all persons Hear my sweet voice.

68. While the cloud of righteousness showers, let all be free from the defilements ; let the lowest of beings be (at least) the Stream-winners.

69. Giving away the gift worthy to be given, I fulfilled the precepts entirely, reached perfection in the matter of renunciation, and obtained the Enlightenment par excellence.

70. Questioning the wise, I put forth the best energy, reached perfection in the matter of forbearance, and obtained the Enlightenment par excellence.

71. Intent on truth, I fulfilled the perfection of truth ; reaching perfection in friendliness, I obtained the Enlightenment par excellence.

72. In gain and loss, in happiness and sorrow, in respect and disrespect, being unperturbed under all vicissitudes, I obtained the Enlightenment par excellence.

73. Viewing idleness from fear, and energy from peace, be energetic - this is the command of the Buddha.

74. Viewing dissention from fear, and amity from peace, be united and kindly in speech - this is the command of the Buddhas.

75. Viewing indolence from fear, and diligence from peace, cultivate the eightfold path - this is the command of the Buddhas.

76. Assembled (here) are many Buddhas and Arahants from all quarters; to the supreme Buddhas and Arahants pay homage and bow down.

77. Thus are the Buddhas incomprehensible, and incomprehensible are the qualities of the Buddhas and incomprehensible is the reward of those who have faith in the incomprehensible.

Thus the Blessed One, while developing his own Buddha-life, related the religious discourse, called the Tradition of the previous excellent deeds of the Buddhas.
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Son of Buddha » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:39 am

HEY MR G
What you're attempting to do is extrapolate Theravadan tenets to Mahayana tenets. It doesn't correlate. Why? Eliminating the 5 fetters will get you to Tushita. You do not need to eliminate any fetters to get to Sukhavati. A Pure Land is not equivalent to Pure Abodes. There is nothing in Theravadan literature where a Pure Abode is equal to a Mahayana Pure Land.[/quote]


in the bdk english tripitaka the 3 pureland sutras translated inagaki hisao
on page 65 he translates amitayus pureland as PUREABODES
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Malcolm » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:19 am

Son of Buddha wrote:

in the bdk english tripitaka the 3 pureland sutras translated inagaki hisao
on page 65 he translates amitayus pureland as PUREABODES


A buddha kṣetra is not a śuddhavasa.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Nighthawk » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:20 am

Namdrol wrote:
Son of Buddha wrote:then the same can be said about those in amitayus pureland because they are not enlightened they have not eradicated all unusayas they are also still apart of the triple realm.




It is difficult to say that the buddhafields are part of samsara. They are more like an inverse image of purgatory.

N


According to Dzogchen.
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Re: Origins of Amitabha

Postby Huifeng » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:48 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Son of Buddha wrote:the pureabode isnt apart of the 3 realms of samsarasan its a place of NON RETURN NONE RETROGRESSION,



Perhaps in Theravada it is not considered part of the three realms. However, in Sarvastivada it is.

N


Still is in Theravada, too.

Though, non-return (anagamin) =/= non-retrogression (avinivartaniya).
The former is a term for sravaka-phala, the latter as a stage on bodhisattva path.

~~ Huifeng
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