Ancient Buddhas

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby Paul » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:29 pm

PadmaVonSamba wrote:"20,000 years", as with the phrase "84,000 paths to Dharma"
is meant as something beyond the ordinary human imagination,
the mind which is limited due to clinging to appearances.
The true nature of mind is limitless.

Measurements of time and size mean nothing to a Buddha.
they have nothing to do with the true nature of things.
If you look at that sutra, He is expressing the limitless nature of limitless Buddhas.


Absolutely. The Mahayana and Vajrayana use huge numbers and other methods to break your concepts with notions so huge that they can't really be comprehended. It's a poetic method with a soteriological aim. All those yojangs and kalpas are not meant to be literal. In reality even they're not big enough.
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"Do not block your six senses; delight in them with joy and ease.
All that you take pleasure in will strengthen the awakened state.
With such a confidence, empowered by the regal state of natural mind,
The training now is simply this: lets your six senses be at ease and free." - Princess Parani
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby Alfredo » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:33 pm

Maybe a day of the Lord is like unto a thousand years....oh wait. Sorry, wrong forum.
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:48 pm

Paul, I agree that the length of Kalpas is often symbolic and/or metaphoric; although I doubt that the Abhijna of seeing the past and past-lives, etc. is not literal.

Padmavonsamba, exactly; just because a Lama has a high position in this world doesn't necessarily mean that he has the level of knowledge that Buddhas and other Lamas had or have.

Anyway, as per your quote on Mind's Nature, practice is more important than intellectually debating these things; as suprasensible perception and such would result more from practice than it would from study & debate.
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby Paul » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:03 am

Lhug-Pa wrote:Paul, I agree that the length of Kalpas is often symbolic and/or metaphoric; although I doubt that the Abhijna of seeing the past and past-lives, etc. is not literal.


I believe in past lives, but consider anything about giant buddhas or humans living for centuries is not even worth a moment's thought.

FWIW I have noticed that many buddhist lamas have a really poor understanding of current scientific knowledge, the scientific method and western philosophy. Doesn't mean they don't know their stuff when if comes to getting enlightened, but I think it does illustrate that liberating oneself is not dependent on empirical facts like the earth being round etc.
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"Do not block your six senses; delight in them with joy and ease.
All that you take pleasure in will strengthen the awakened state.
With such a confidence, empowered by the regal state of natural mind,
The training now is simply this: lets your six senses be at ease and free." - Princess Parani
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby dharmagoat » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:15 am

Lhug-Pa wrote:H.H. the Dalai Lama found Upasika Blavatsky's writings worth considering; and who has more credibility: The Dalai Lama, or random internet forum members (such as myself and most others who post here).

Is there documentation of this? I would like to check this out.

Of course, "worth considering" is not much of an endorsement. It is "worth considering" scorpions when walking in the desert.

It is also possible that he was just being magnanimous.
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:35 am

Paul wrote:I believe in past lives, but consider anything about giant buddhas or humans living for centuries is not even worth a moment's thought.

FWIW I have noticed that many buddhist lamas have a really poor understanding of current scientific knowledge, the scientific method and western philosophy. Doesn't mean they don't know their stuff when if comes to getting enlightened, but I think it does illustrate that liberating oneself is not dependent on empirical facts like the earth being round etc.


Well as long as people don't ridicule more-esoteric considerations such as Long-Lived Alchemists, Giants, Abhijnas, etc. without first looking into them, then if these things have no significance to their Spiritual Path, it's all good.

Nevertheless, many Dharma teachings state that the more familiarization with non-conceptual Wisdom there is, understanding of relative things in their individuality in relation to everything else, clairvoyance, etc. manifests spontaneously.

For dharmagoat:

http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/voicep ... hilama.htm


About The Voice of the Silence, the Dalai Lama and D.T. Suzuki wrote:"Since 1956 I have had a close connection with the Theosophical Society...

"I believe that this book has strongly influenced many sincere seekers and aspirants to the wisdom and compassion of the Bodhisattva Path." - H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama


"Undoubtedly Madame Blavatsky had in some way been initiated into the deeper side of Mahayana teaching and then gave out what she deemed wise to the Western world...

"Here is the real Mahayana Buddhism." - D.T. Suzuki


And again, before anyone tries to associate Upasika Blavatsky with racism (and by extension H.H. the Dalai Lama and D.T. Suzuki since they've endorsed her):

viewtopic.php?f=97&t=6587&start=0#p117219

Please see this^ post.

And again:


Lhug-Pa wrote:My main criticism of H.P. Blavatsky is her criticism of Bön; because she apparently assumed that all Bönpo's are the same as the negative Böns that Padmasambhava subdued, which is a mistake because there have always been positive Bönpo's both before and after Padmasambhava arrived in Tibet. If she were still physically alive today, I'm sure that she would rectify her mistake.
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby futerko » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:49 am

non-conceptual Knowledge and the Voice of Silence?

I think the "clam hypothesis" was probably closer to the mark. Maybe Kashyapa Buddha was in fact a giant lobster or a really small jellyfish?

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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:07 am

Skeptics main weapons against what they falsely perceive as "superstition":

:rolleye: :alien: :crazy: emoticons, and let's not forget "tinfoil hats".

Look, I'm not saying that Upasika Blavatsky was necessarily a Dzogchen Master.

I'm only asking that people be a little more open-minded instead of believing practically everything official science says; (which I already explained at some length in my post on the previous page of this thread).
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby futerko » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:32 am

Lhug-Pa wrote:I'm only asking that people be a little more open-minded instead of believing practically everything official science says; (which I already explained at some length in my post on the previous page of this thread).


Clearly scientific paradigms are a "best fit" and also rely somewhat on metaphors in order to describe the world, this does not mean however that any speculative guess is just as good.

"The Giants of old are all buried under the Oceans, and hundreds of thousands of years of constant friction by water would reduce to dust..." is an interesting speculation with zero evidence, and to what purpose does someone feel the need to grasp at positive assertions based upon literally nothing whatsoever?
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby dharmagoat » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:34 am

Lhug-Pa wrote:
About The Voice of the Silence, the Dalai Lama and D.T. Suzuki wrote:"Since 1956 I have had a close connection with the Theosophical Society...

"I believe that this book has strongly influenced many sincere seekers and aspirants to the wisdom and compassion of the Bodhisattva Path." - H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama


"Undoubtedly Madame Blavatsky had in some way been initiated into the deeper side of Mahayana teaching and then gave out what she deemed wise to the Western world...

"Here is the real Mahayana Buddhism." - D.T. Suzuki

The Dalai Lama wrote in his book "The Opening of the Wisdom-Eye":
Since 1956 I have had a close connection with the Theosophical Society because of the non-sectarian and far-reaching social activities being done by the society.

It is widely known that the Dalai Lama has a connection with many humanitarian groups, Buddhist and non-Buddhist alike. He says that his connection with the Theosophical Society is because of their social activities.

http://blavatskytheosophy.com/blavatsky-and-buddhism/
When the centenary edition of this book was brought out in 1989, the present Dalai Lama wrote, “I am therefore happy to have this long association with the Theosophists and to learn about the Centenary Edition: THE VOICE OF THE SILENCE which is being brought out this year. I believe that this book has strongly influenced many sincere seekers and aspirants to the wisdom and compassion of the Bodhisattva Path. I very much welcome this Centenary Edition and hope that it will benefit many more.”

The first thing that I noticed about this quote is that the explanation given by the Dalai Lama as to why he is happy to be associated with the Theosophical Society has been left out. Also, saying that Blavatsky's book has "strongly influenced sincere seekers and aspirants to the wisdom and compassion of the Bodhisattva Path" is not an endorsement of writing itself, but a suggestion that the book benefits its readers by pointing them to the wisdom and compassion of the (authentic) Bodhisattva Path. Nowhere does he state that Blavatsky is an authority on Buddhism.

As for D.T. Suzuki, that is another matter altogether.
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:38 am

It's really not an issue if a person understands these literally or metaphorically. It's not as though there is, empirically, only one way of looking at things. Buddhists teachings are very profound and can be understood on many levels. It is said that when the Buddha spoke, everyone could understand him accurately, according to the person's way of understanding.

However, speaking digging up proof of giants, I would like to share this.
I remember reading about this when I was a kid.
Pretty amazing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_Giant
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The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby futerko » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:05 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote: I remember reading about this when I was a kid.
Pretty amazing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_Giant
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You were a kid in 1869? :shock:

I think we have all the proof we need right here. Are you a giant too?
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby dharmagoat » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:16 am

futerko wrote:You were a kid in 1869? :shock:

This doesn't follow, at all.
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby futerko » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:20 am

dharmagoat wrote:
futerko wrote:You were a kid in 1869? :shock:

This doesn't follow, at all.


Dude, you need to get with the theme of this thread. It happened in 1869, Padma remembers it, ergo we have a candidate.

Please don't confuse the issue with facts and the like.
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby dharmagoat » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:23 am

futerko wrote:
dharmagoat wrote:
futerko wrote:You were a kid in 1869? :shock:

This doesn't follow, at all.

Dude, you need to get with the theme of this thread. It happened in 1869, Padma remembers it, ergo we have a candidate.

Please don't confuse the issue with facts and the like.

Okay, now that we are both on the same page, as 'twere.
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:02 am

dharmagoat wrote:
futerko wrote:You were a kid in 1869? :shock:

This doesn't follow, at all.


It happened in 1869. I read about it about a hundred years later.
:rolling:
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The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby catmoon » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:40 am

Lhug-Pa wrote:As expected, more insubstantial smug ridicule, and no substance.



Sorry, but you have blown your credibility completely, and with it went your right to expect me to spend time and effort on your lunacies.
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby catmoon » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:55 am

Maybe I should go further. I'll add that I deeply resent you being allowed to hijack the largest Buddhism board on the net and use it as a soapbox to promote crackpot theories, conspiracy theories and the other such garbage. In my opinion you should have been thrown off the board long ago and sent to an asylum.
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby Paul » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:00 am

Lhug-Pa wrote:I'm only asking that people be a little more open-minded instead of believing practically everything official science says; (which I already explained at some length in my post on the previous page of this thread).


There's open minded and then there's believing that a cabal of jewish scientists are repressing the evidence of giant skeletons.
Image

"Do not block your six senses; delight in them with joy and ease.
All that you take pleasure in will strengthen the awakened state.
With such a confidence, empowered by the regal state of natural mind,
The training now is simply this: lets your six senses be at ease and free." - Princess Parani
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Re: Ancient Buddhas

Postby catmoon » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:03 am

Right so let's get back on topic. What was the topic again? Oh Buddha, its not even a legitimate topic. Why is this thread still open?
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